Fender American Vintage II leak

hops

Strat-Talker
Aug 3, 2017
183
Washington DC
So the 73 has a polyurethane finish. Makes sense. But what about the others? I need to know!!

Also, good on bringing back the 7,25 radius. Me like.

Btw @hops where did you get this from, and do you have information on other models?

The 60's are "nitro" (or at least some type of lacquer containing an unknown percentage of nitro in the binder). I have not seen anything claiming the base coat is lacquer based, and if it was there is a 100% chance they would headline that as a specification. So the assumption is the based is some type of poly (-urethane or -ester).

The 60's necks are just nitro, no urethane.

Glad they did not spec the 70's series instruments with polyester. I wonder if they release a 1970's model with their Authentic "Thick Skin"® Polyester coating how the sales would be?

Personally I really like a nice thin urethane finish. Paint chemistry isn't a deal breaker for me- even if the whole AVII series body paint was urethane. I'm probably in the minority when I say that. And I mean thin where you can make out the wood grain and glue seams in the right light.
 

=KARMA=

Senior Stratmaster
Feb 24, 2015
1,945
Londinium
I like how you politely referred to people who like a small radius, as tolls or trolls I think you meant. For the record I’m not telling anyone what to like, that’s all you.

You think fender will loose sales, not likely. The AV Strats that are still left out in the used market get snatched up real quick. The people who bought them and still have them, claim they are the best reissues yet. Calling people trolls though, you really need to look yourself in the mirror.
The original vintage fretboard radius is so easy to play, that I really don’t know what all the fuss is about. 🤔
 

=KARMA=

Senior Stratmaster
Feb 24, 2015
1,945
Londinium
just what we needed - more guitars.
Well, the global production of guitars isn’t going to stop anytime soon.

If the companies that produce them aren’t shipping and invoicing their product, then they will quickly cease trading.

The most obvious effect of this is that many people will lose their jobs, and their only source of income.
 
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Intune

Most Honored Senior Member
Jan 14, 2021
6,194
Edmonton, Alberta
The original vintage fretboard radius is so easy to play, that I really don’t know what all the fuss is about. 🤔

I get that it’s probably not ideal for lots of people. I do like a 9.5 radius myself but have no problem with vintage radius. I can see if someone is used to a 28 fret 16” wizard type neck then yeah steer clear of vintage radius. Then again vintage specs are not your thing, stay away from vintage reissues, it’s really simple.
 

Numbercruncher

Senior Stratmaster
Nov 28, 2017
2,000
Spokane, WA
According to reports, it looks like the American Vintage line from Fender is going to be resurrected in the coming weeks. Prices in Europe look to be around 2200EUR. No confirmation on the radius though although some rumors mention a radius of 7.25" on all models. And they'll have vintage tall frets. How true this is remains to be seen.


View attachment 595210

That 3 color burst looks terrible without a hint of wood grain in the body. Looks like cheap plastic in the same way that butterscotch blonde looks like plastic made to have a faux woodgrain. At this price point they can sell it with an ash body as demand won't be that high.

And why such a strong tint on the neck? I assume it is to make them all look alike? Just not interested.

I got lucky and bought a 70's Vintera Strat a year and a half ago in aged-natural. That ash body is a thing of beauty. I know why they are gone but Fender can at least offer it on a high end model or mod shop.

NC
 

hops

Strat-Talker
Aug 3, 2017
183
Washington DC
That 3 color burst looks terrible without a hint of wood grain in the body. Looks like cheap plastic in the same way that butterscotch blonde looks like plastic made to have a faux woodgrain. At this price point they can sell it with an ash body as demand won't be that high.

And why such a strong tint on the neck? I assume it is to make them all look alike? Just not interested.

I got lucky and bought a 70's Vintera Strat a year and a half ago in aged-natural. That ash body is a thing of beauty. I know why they are gone but Fender can at least offer it on a high end model or mod shop.

NC
I'm withholding judgement until we can see some decent hi-res photos (Sweetwater, etc.).
 

YohanTheMan

Senior Stratmaster
Sep 3, 2020
1,274
Denmark
The 60's are "nitro" (or at least some type of lacquer containing an unknown percentage of nitro in the binder). I have not seen anything claiming the base coat is lacquer based, and if it was there is a 100% chance they would headline that as a specification. So the assumption is the based is some type of poly (-urethane or -ester).

The 60's necks are just nitro, no urethane.

Glad they did not spec the 70's series instruments with polyester. I wonder if they release a 1970's model with their Authentic "Thick Skin"® Polyester coating how the sales would be?

Personally I really like a nice thin urethane finish. Paint chemistry isn't a deal breaker for me- even if the whole AVII series body paint was urethane. I'm probably in the minority when I say that. And I mean thin where you can make out the wood grain and glue seams in the right light.
Fair enough. Chemistry was never my strong suit, but I think I follow what you're saying. Tuesday the 4th next month should be the day Fender announces the series, so we will see what exactly is going on with these instruments.

I agree though, if it was a lacquer undercoat they would go with that in the advertisements. Just a shame if they don't bring it back from the first AVs imho. Each to their own. I think it's safe to say we'll all get a better impression when we see something from Fender, or the dealers out there.
 

John C

Most Honored Senior Member
Silver Member
Jul 17, 2012
8,332
Kansas City
looking like fender is going to 7.1/4 again, they will loose sales numbers by doing this, no matter how hard the tolls tell you it’s what you want, it is at the extreme end as would be a 12” or 16” radius, I love a 12” have an srv and an EJ , matches My Gibsons, many choose not to buy them for the exact opposite reasons, the 9.5 radius lies in the middle, as soon as the AO came out, I threw down my money , a vintage style fender not In that goofy 7, 1/4 radius. I do still prefer a 12” yup, will I buy a 9.5, yup, a 7 /14, never, and I am sure a few 7 1/4 loving people purchased a 9.5”, but would never a 12”, the AO line straddled the middle ground, not the far ends of it, the custom shop far away sells more 9.5 radius, and vintage tall frets than any other…..and I am sure fender knows this, it may be doing this to try to recover imagined or real cs sales they feel they have lost. Who knows.
just an observation, I don’t really care, I have enough wonderful AO necks In both maple and rosewood Strat and tele to far outlast me….and a few complete AOs, anyway they are some great necks.
ones that I put the money out on, a 7 1/4 , will never happen. I tried, and tried twice, lost lots of money both times, I hate a small radius. I do like fender vintage style, and tones, though.
the AO line will be missed, and the new name is just goofy….A simple name like “American classic“ would have sufficed. the whole “II” thing is just like movie sequel cheese, but that’s just me…

From roughly 2007 -early 2013 Fender had the "Vintage Hot Rod" models with the 9.5" radius and larger frets alongside the AVRI models; it wouldn't surprise me to see a "Hot Rod Vintage II" series in a year or two for those who prefer the flatter radius and larger frets that were found on the AOs. They of course are doing that with the Vintera series right now - vintage-spec and modern spec (i.e. the Vintera Modified models).

Fender went way off in left field spec-wise when they revised the Vintage Hot Rod series in the fall of 2013; they tanked in the market except for the Vintage Hot Rod '50s Tele that had a Wide Range humbucker in the neck position (whatever they were using as a Wide Range at the time; this predates their recreation of the CuNiFe Wide Range) and were discontinued in the fall of 2014. All of them had D-shaped necks, 7.25"-12" compound radius necks, odd pickup choices, and the 60s Tele was in Nashville configuration.
 

hops

Strat-Talker
Aug 3, 2017
183
Washington DC
Fair enough. Chemistry was never my strong suit, but I think I follow what you're saying. Tuesday the 4th next month should be the day Fender announces the series, so we will see what exactly is going on with these instruments.

I agree though, if it was a lacquer undercoat they would go with that in the advertisements. Just a shame if they don't bring it back from the first AVs imho. Each to their own. I think it's safe to say we'll all get a better impression when we see something from Fender, or the dealers out there.
I think where it matters is that Fender is going to have a hard time justifying a $200-300 price hike. I just don't see anything here (yet) that gives me a reason to pay much more than an AO. Basically the difference between AO and AVII is the type of lacquer on the body (nitro vs presumably arcrylic; both have poly-type base coat) and 7.25 vs 9.5. Everything else just subtle nuance.

1960's colors like Oly White and LPB was originally an acrylic lacquer paint with a nitro clear coat on top, so for the sake of historical "accuracy" it means even less trying to replicate it.
 

Intune

Most Honored Senior Member
Jan 14, 2021
6,194
Edmonton, Alberta
I think where it matters is that Fender is going to have a hard time justifying a $200-300 price hike. I just don't see anything here (yet) that gives me a reason to pay much more than an AO. Basically the difference between AO and AVII is the type of lacquer on the body (nitro vs presumably arcrylic; both have poly-type base coat) and 7.25 vs 9.5. Everything else just subtle nuance.

1960's colors like Oly White and LPB was originally an acrylic lacquer paint with a nitro clear coat on top, so for the sake of historical "accuracy" it means even less trying to replicate it.

I don’t know about a hard time selling because of a price hike. When the 2012 AV launched it was a crazy high price. Within a few years they were hard to find.

Also the AV and AO had different finishes as you mention but the poly-type base coat was different on both. I’m not sure what the AV II will have for a sealer but the AV and AO had 2 different sealers. The AV stripped to bare wood with basic paint stripper and the AO didn’t. Hear gun and lots of sanding to remove the polyurethane sealer.

Either way I don’t think these will be a hard sell, especially when they turn up used.
 

hops

Strat-Talker
Aug 3, 2017
183
Washington DC
I'm deducing the AVII will have a similar sealer to the AO, not the same sealer as the 2012 AV. I may be wrong, but none of the leaks mentioned a flash coat, thin skin, or anything to the like. If they were using such a process I'm sure they'd proudly say so.

That's also my arbitrary opinion on sales with the new price. I personally think the colors are disappointing, so who knows how they will really sell. I've been wrong before.
 

YohanTheMan

Senior Stratmaster
Sep 3, 2020
1,274
Denmark
I think where it matters is that Fender is going to have a hard time justifying a $200-300 price hike. I just don't see anything here (yet) that gives me a reason to pay much more than an AO. Basically the difference between AO and AVII is the type of lacquer on the body (nitro vs presumably arcrylic; both have poly-type base coat) and 7.25 vs 9.5. Everything else just subtle nuance.

1960's colors like Oly White and LPB was originally an acrylic lacquer paint with a nitro clear coat on top, so for the sake of historical "accuracy" it means even less trying to replicate it.
Okay, again not entirely sure about the paints. I just don't know enough about the history and the differences between the various types of finishes. Nitro lacquer and poly is basically what I know about. But thanks for the info.

I have a Vintera Road Worn relic, and the poly undercoat is quite thick and feels like plastic. It's very counterintuitive to touch the biggest patch of "bare wood" on the armrest, as you don't feel the wood at all. It's just this thick plastic sealer. And that's a relic. I can only imagine how durable a non relic with similar or same undercoat will be. That's what I'm hoping to avoid, but it will be revealed shortly.

As for price, everything is going up, and that just the way it is. I won't be buying the first batch new, as i won't be home for a while, and none of colors are doing much for me. At some point Fender will shake it up a bit and there will be some other colors available. That's when I'm hoping to strike, and I'll be trying to get a second hand one. Another thing to consider is how much case candy there will be. That could justify some of the price increase.
 

Intune

Most Honored Senior Member
Jan 14, 2021
6,194
Edmonton, Alberta
I'm deducing the AVII will have a similar sealer to the AO, not the same sealer as the 2012 AV. I may be wrong, but none of the leaks mentioned a flash coat, thin skin, or anything to the like. If they were using such a process I'm sure they'd proudly say so.

That's also my arbitrary opinion on sales with the new price. I personally think the colors are disappointing, so who knows how they will really sell. I've been wrong before.

Don’t take this the wrong way but I hope you’re wrong. Still they don’t say flash coat like they did with the previous AV series. They did plaster it everywhere and that was the reason for the price hike. So I’m hoping these have the same reason for the price hike and not just because of inflation!

@YohanTheMan That road worn finish is really odd isn’t it? I have no science degree but that finish is like nothing I’ve ever seen and felt.
 

YohanTheMan

Senior Stratmaster
Sep 3, 2020
1,274
Denmark
Don’t take this the wrong way but I hope you’re wrong. Still they don’t say flash coat like they did with the previous AV series. They did plaster it everywhere and that was the reason for the price hike. So I’m hoping these have the same reason for the price hike and not just because of inflation!

@YohanTheMan That road worn finish is really odd isn’t it? I have no science degree but that finish is like nothing I’ve ever seen and felt.
My experience with nitro/poly combo is very limited, but I can attest that it is an odd finish. I haven't been home in a while, so my memory of it isn't great, but as far as I recall there are a few small relic spots on the guitar, especially the back where the lacquer and undercoat feels quite thin, but then there's the big exposed part i was talking about on the armcontour that feels very thick and plasticky. It could just be something that happens when they relic it, but it feels like the lacquer and poly wasn't evenly distributed on the guitar. That's just my foggy memory of it, so again I might not be remembering very accurately. I just don't know what the idea is supposed to be with such a finish. When the lacquer has be played off the guitar, you're just stuck with a Strat that looks like it's been dipped in clear syrup.
 

Intune

Most Honored Senior Member
Jan 14, 2021
6,194
Edmonton, Alberta
My experience with nitro/poly combo is very limited, but I can attest that it is an odd finish. I haven't been home in a while, so my memory of it isn't great, but as far as I recall there are a few small relic spots on the guitar, especially the back where the lacquer and undercoat feels quite thin, but then there's the big exposed part i was talking about on the armcontour that feels very thick and plasticky. It could just be something that happens when they relic it, but it feels like the lacquer and poly wasn't evenly distributed on the guitar. That's just my foggy memory of it, so again I might not be remembering very accurately. I just don't know what the idea is supposed to be with such a finish. When the lacquer has be played off the guitar, you're just stuck with a Strat that looks like it's been dipped in clear syrup.

Well your description is basically what I found out also. I was looking for to these coming out only because I was after the body. I figured hey it’s nitro and it could be a cheaper alternative for my partscasters builds. Then seeing them in person I soon realized the finish was really odd. Right dull and real thick but only on certain spots as you noticed to. Still sweet guitars but if one was going after them for the “nitro” finish I’d be kind of disappointed.
 


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