Fender Pure Vintage 65, Analysis and Review

Antigua

Senior Stratmaster
Feb 28, 2014
4,452
in between
http://shop.fender.com/en-US/accessories/pickups/pure-vintage-65-strat-pickups/0992237000.html

FzakEk9.jpg


I just measured this set because I was curious to see how they compared to the CS 69's http://www.strat-talk.com/threads/fender-cs-69-analysis-and-review.401765/

It turns out, the PV 65 is a "hotter" set. Both feature gray bottoms and red "enamel coated magnet wire". Both sets are new to within the past two years.

Fender Pure Vintage 65 - #1
DC Resistance: 6.03K
Inductance: 2.701 H
Resonant Peak: 8.38 kHz
Calculated C: 114pF (134-20)
Coil width: 0.545"

Fender Pure Vintage 65 - #2
DC Resistance: 6.25K
Inductance: 2.648 H
Resonant Peak: 8.08 kHz
Calculated C: 127pF (147-20)
Coil width: 0.53"

Fender Pure Vintage 65 - #3

DC Resistance: 6.04K
Inductance: 2.669 H
Resonant Peak: 8.36 kHz
Calculated C: 116pF (136-20)
Coil width: 0.56"

The 2nd pickup is an outlier with respect to the coil capacitance, calculated from the resonant peak and inductance. The CS 69's show a higher calculated capacitance, by about 15 to 20pF. The CS 69's have much lower inductance, ~2.1 to ~2.6, as well has a lower DC resistance, around 600 ohms less, so it's clear that the CS 69's have a substantially lower wind count, but that the difference in capacitance ends up causing the peaks to be closer together than they would be otherwise. The difference in capacitance is a bit of a mystery, as the tightness of the coil seems to correspond with the differences in inductance and resistance. There's no reason to believe a difference in wind tension is to blame for the difference in capacitance.

All said and done, the loaded peak of the CS 69 was put at ~4.1kHz to the PV 65's ~3.8kHz, making the CS 69 set the brighter of the two. The Q factor seems to be about the same. The Q factor always seems to be the same; very near 1.8. I'm tempted to not bother with calculating the Q going forward, as it is a value that readily changes with the volume and tone pot tolerances, anyway. Humbuckers have a loaded Q that is too low to calculate based on the -3dB bandwidth difference.

I though Fender might have just re-purposed CS 69 stock as PV 65, but clearly that's not the case. I'm happy to find that I actually have two distinct sets up pickups here.


upload_2016-7-19_11-31-56.png




Setup details:

Bode plots are made with a Velleman PCSGU250 and the supplied probes in 10x mode, with the function generator feeding a driver coil of 0.48mH, placed on top of the pickup and driven with 2Vpp. The pickup is connected to an integrator circuit, designed by Ken Willmotthttp://kenwillmott.com/blog/, with a Velleman 10x probe, and fed back into the Velleman PCSGU250. I measured the probes' capacitance at 20pF, so that amount is subtracted from the capacitance calculation. The "loaded" tests have exactly 470k ohms and 200pF capacitance across the pickup.

The inductance and Q measurements are made with an Extech 380193 in "SER" series mode, and the mean value between the 1kHz and 120Hz modes is recorded. The capacitance value is derived from the inductance and measured resonant peak.

Magnets are tested with a Spin Doctor ERhttp://gravitastech.weebly.com/spin-doctor-er.html
 

Antigua

Senior Stratmaster
Feb 28, 2014
4,452
in between
I'm a big fan of these out of all the PV sets Fender makes today.

Thanks! What was the strength of the magnets in comparison?

I forgot to check, but you can rest assured they are full gauss A5, 1100 give or take.

I've seen talk about degaussed A5, but I've never seen a Fender pickup that was degaussed, and I know from experience that it's not super easy to partially degauss AlNiCo 5 to a specific degree. The B-H curve of AlNiCo is rather steep, so you can easily "slide down" further than you intend. Although I'm sure something could be carefully crafted to do it consistently, when I tried it by hand, it was very easy to overshoot the degauss target. It would take several tries just to get one pole piece to be, say, anywhere near 800 gauss. The other issue is that degaussed AlNiCo will lose gauss more easily than fully charged AlNiCo, so it can more readily lose strength in the months and years that pass while it's in your guitar, sounding thinner and thinner and time goes on.
 

Guy Named Sue

Censored
Feb 11, 2015
27,639
Terra Incognita
What strikes as a surprise is the kohm being higher on middle pickup I dont think I've seen any aftermarket sets like that. Logical thing is to put the hotter one at bridge position.

But ive tried them In tgeir respective guitar model and have sets of them. I actually tend to use the middle pickup more on the PV65 than I do with other pickups.

But it works and it sounds great. I'm not complaining. But also the magnet pole thickness being different. ..was is closer to a bridge tele pole?
 

Antigua

Senior Stratmaster
Feb 28, 2014
4,452
in between
What strikes as a surprise is the kohm being higher on middle pickup I dont think I've seen any aftermarket sets like that. Logical thing is to put the hotter one at bridge position.

But ive tried them In tgeir respective guitar model and have sets of them. I actually tend to use the middle pickup more on the PV65 than I do with other pickups.

But it works and it sounds great. I'm not complaining. But also the magnet pole thickness being different. ..was is closer to a bridge tele pole?

It's actually three of a kind, there's no specific neck middle or bridge.
 

Bob priv

Strat-Talk Member
Aug 26, 2017
11
Florida
I have a set of these that measure DC resistance at 5.97K, 5.99K and 6.01K. They are are all within .04K or about 40 ohms. Effectively dead on to the 5.9 specified on the Fender packaging. The sound is similar to a 1964 Strat that I used to own many years ago. Clean and a bit punchy.

I also own a set of the Fender 57/62 pickups, installed on a different Stratocaster. These are even more chime like than the PV 65's, have noticeably more output. Very well balanced from string to string and also from pickup to pickup.

The PV 65's do not have a reverse wound reverse pole middle pickups. DC resistance measurements that I've seen seems to indicate that for the most part, it probably will make to difference in which position you install them for the vast majority of installations. Still you could measure them individually and place the one with the highest DCR in the bridge position.

The 57/62's do have a designated reverse wound reverse pole middle pickup to provide noise cancelling when used together with one of the other pickups.
 

ffariasrey

New Member!
Jul 5, 2022
2
Chile
http://shop.fender.com/en-US/accessories/pickups/pure-vintage-65-strat-pickups/0992237000.html

FzakEk9.jpg


I just measured this set because I was curious to see how they compared to the CS 69's http://www.strat-talk.com/threads/fender-cs-69-analysis-and-review.401765/

It turns out, the PV 65 is a "hotter" set. Both feature gray bottoms and red "enamel coated magnet wire". Both sets are new to within the past two years.

Fender Pure Vintage 65 - #1
DC Resistance: 6.03K
Inductance: 2.701 H
Resonant Peak: 8.38 kHz
Calculated C: 114pF (134-20)
Coil width: 0.545"

Fender Pure Vintage 65 - #2
DC Resistance: 6.25K
Inductance: 2.648 H
Resonant Peak: 8.08 kHz
Calculated C: 127pF (147-20)
Coil width: 0.53"

Fender Pure Vintage 65 - #3
DC Resistance: 6.04K
Inductance: 2.669 H
Resonant Peak: 8.36 kHz
Calculated C: 116pF (136-20)
Coil width: 0.56"

The 2nd pickup is an outlier with respect to the coil capacitance, calculated from the resonant peak and inductance. The CS 69's show a higher calculated capacitance, by about 15 to 20pF. The CS 69's have much lower inductance, ~2.1 to ~2.6, as well has a lower DC resistance, around 600 ohms less, so it's clear that the CS 69's have a substantially lower wind count, but that the difference in capacitance ends up causing the peaks to be closer together than they would be otherwise. The difference in capacitance is a bit of a mystery, as the tightness of the coil seems to correspond with the differences in inductance and resistance. There's no reason to believe a difference in wind tension is to blame for the difference in capacitance.

All said and done, the loaded peak of the CS 69 was put at ~4.1kHz to the PV 65's ~3.8kHz, making the CS 69 set the brighter of the two. The Q factor seems to be about the same. The Q factor always seems to be the same; very near 1.8. I'm tempted to not bother with calculating the Q going forward, as it is a value that readily changes with the volume and tone pot tolerances, anyway. Humbuckers have a loaded Q that is too low to calculate based on the -3dB bandwidth difference.

I though Fender might have just re-purposed CS 69 stock as PV 65, but clearly that's not the case. I'm happy to find that I actually have two distinct sets up pickups here.


View attachment 190891




Setup details:

Bode plots are made with a Velleman PCSGU250 and the supplied probes in 10x mode, with the function generator feeding a driver coil of 0.48mH, placed on top of the pickup and driven with 2Vpp. The pickup is connected to an integrator circuit, designed by Ken Willmotthttp://kenwillmott.com/blog/, with a Velleman 10x probe, and fed back into the Velleman PCSGU250. I measured the probes' capacitance at 20pF, so that amount is subtracted from the capacitance calculation. The "loaded" tests have exactly 470k ohms and 200pF capacitance across the pickup.

The inductance and Q measurements are made with an Extech 380193 in "SER" series mode, and the mean value between the 1kHz and 120Hz modes is recorded. The capacitance value is derived from the inductance and measured resonant peak.

Magnets are tested with a Spin Doctor ERhttp://gravitastech.weebly.com/spin-doctor-er.html
Thanks for the Info!

How this compare to Lollar Blackface and SD Antiquity II tone wise?
 

Antigua

Senior Stratmaster
Feb 28, 2014
4,452
in between
Thicker than the Antiquity II and nearly the same specs as the Blackface, but the Blackface are flat poled, so they sound a little more scooped despite the similar specs.
 

ffariasrey

New Member!
Jul 5, 2022
2
Chile
Thicker than the Antiquity II and nearly the same specs as the Blackface, but the Blackface are flat poled, so they sound a little more scooped despite the similar specs.
Cool. So they are almost the same as CS Fat 50s I suppose. Do you think there is an importan difference between these two?

BTW, thanks for all your analysis, I been using them quite a lot in my quest for my prefered tone. It's very helpful to be guided by objective data and not by marketing bs. Thanks mate.
 


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