Graphtech saddles to help Strat warble?

Discussion in 'Stratocaster Discussion Forum' started by Mjh36, Oct 26, 2020.

  1. Mjh36

    Mjh36 Strat-Talk Member

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    I have an 2008 Fender American Special HSS, I don't really have string break issues, but I got this G string warble I'm trying to diagnose. I know it's common in strats but I feel it shouldn't do it as much as it is. On open G and all of it's frets up the neck, even on a couple other strings, like D and A on the 20-22 frets. A sitar sounding warble. Sustain is ok though, so I wouldn't say it's fret buzz, action is good, fret clearance, nut seems ok (LSR roller) etc. Thought about magnetic pull, so pickups are decked. While that helps a little, its still there and I cannot lower the pickups any more than they are.

    Only thing I can think of is replacing some hardware at the string contact points, as it's been 10+ years. Probably a new LSR roller nut, and I was looking at Graphtech saddles, the black all Teflon ones like $50 bucks. I was hoping for any opinions? Not worried about tone change that I've read about, just need the warble to stop it's so annoying. Or any other ideas would be welcome thanks.
     
  2. fezz parka

    fezz parka fezz parka

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    Just the G?

    Depress the string in back of the nut. Does it change or go away?

    If not...it's not the nut.

    Next...tune it ( the G string) up a step to A. Does it change?

    If not...its not a frequency dependent oscillation.

    Next, check the saddle screws to be sure that they're making contact with the bridgeplate.

    Next...make sure the springs in the cavity aren't vibrating.

    Lastly...lower your neck and middle pickups and raise the string height.

    If your string height is very low...decking the pickups doesn't help with stratitis. 90% this is stratitis. You have to get the string height away from the neck and middle pickups.

    Sometimes you have shim the neck at the butt end to get the saddles higher.
     
  3. Mjh36

    Mjh36 Strat-Talk Member

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    Thank you for the great reply. Some things I have already done.

    Depress string behind nut? Done, warble still there

    Tuning higher or bending to higher pitch - Done, warble still there

    Saddle screws - everything is making tight contact

    Tremolo springs in cavity - I have foam to dampen them, warble still there.

    Lastly, pickups are decked. Can't get them lower. Warble still there. Ever so slightly less but maybe a volume thing? I have not raised the action. I will try though. But as is my neck volume is super low because the pickup is decked, I'd rather not raise the action since the volume will get even quieter.

    I will also mention I notice it slightly on the really high frets of D and A strings. G is the worst, all frets.

    I agree I feel it's stratitis, but just thought maybe I'll renew the hardware in general.

    Pickups are Dimarzios. Virtual vintage 54 pros neck/mid and PAF pro in bridge. I was looking into those rail pickups too maybe for the better magnetic balance from string to string? Thoughts? Thanks again.
    20201026_192431.jpg 20201026_182855.jpg
     
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  4. 3bolt79

    3bolt79 Most Honored Senior Member

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    You may want to check your intonation screws and see if the affected string is sharp or flat. You might be able to move that “node” a bit. Neck pickup on the g string is usually the worst offender. But looking at your photo, the b and g string seem to be the same length, and try raising the action some if you can.
     
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  5. fezz parka

    fezz parka fezz parka

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    Your string height looks very low. The bridge pickup isn't your problem. Shim the neck at the butt end. Then raise your saddles.
     
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  6. Mjh36

    Mjh36 Strat-Talk Member

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    Hey thanks for the reply. Ya I was messing with the G saddle earlier today, I loosened it to sand it with wet/dry sandpaper, very lightly multiple grits, to smooth out a small groove I saw. Didn't change the warble though. I haven't re-intonated that string yet.

    I'll try raising the action I guess, just seems crazy cuz the pickups are so low the volume of them is quiet with no "attack". What do u think about some Dimarzio or Duncan rail pickups for the magnetic string balance thing they say it does?
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2020
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  7. Mjh36

    Mjh36 Strat-Talk Member

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    Thank you for your reply. I will say my action seems to be about 2mm give or take. Its low but no fret buzz. But that's a good idea. Because that way I'm raising the string height but I can keep my action close to how it is, if the neck and bridge get raised?

    My guitar has that adjustment in the back of the heel, the micro-tilt adjustment i think they call it. Will that shim it sufficiently you think?
     
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  8. fezz parka

    fezz parka fezz parka

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    That'll do.
     
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  9. 3bolt79

    3bolt79 Most Honored Senior Member

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    That would shim it good. I think Fezz is right. You’ve tried everything else already, and the micro tilt adjustment will probably be your best chance at a cure. I know nothing about the pickups you mentioned earlier, so I can’t really speak to that right now. But adjust the neck heel with your micro tilt, and let us know how it goes.
     
  10. Mjh36

    Mjh36 Strat-Talk Member

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    Thank u for the video link. Ya my single coils are the noiseless dimarzios, NON-staggered on g,b, and high e, they are flat, which I think works in my favor. I was looking at those rail pickups in single coil size for perhaps a lower or more evenly distributed magnetic pull, if I have to ditch regular single coils to beat the warble, so be it.

    Its just weird I look down at my guitar and I think to myself "the strings need to be even further away?" The g string is about 1/2 inch from the top of the pole. Is that normal?
    But I will work on the shim/tilt tonight and let you guys know, thank you.
     
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  11. Jason D

    Jason D Senior Stratmaster

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    I have nothing to add other than this was a great thread. I knew quite a few of these techniques, but not all of them. Glad I read through this. OP, good luck getting your warble figured out. Those weird problems can be frustrating like no other.
     
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  12. Mjh36

    Mjh36 Strat-Talk Member

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    Ya man it's been bugging me for years on this strat. I know it comes with the territory, but mine is excessive I feel.

    I will update whether it's shimming the neck, new style of neck/middle pickups, saddles etc. I may just throw it off of a cliff you never know haha
     
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  13. johnnymg

    johnnymg Most Honored Senior Member

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    That sounds CRAZY high to me. ???

    Have you tried a different brand of strings?
     
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  14. Mjh36

    Mjh36 Strat-Talk Member

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    I know seems crazy high, I can't lower them more or they'll fall into the cavity. Ya ernies, dadarrios, the nyxl's are on there now. This pic is before I start shimming, as an example. I think it read 11mm/0.43in from string to top of pole. We'll see how it goes, might need some hotter pickups lol.
    20201026_211622.jpg
    20201026_212032.jpg
     
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  15. Mjh36

    Mjh36 Strat-Talk Member

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    20201026_221123.jpg
    20201026_221100.jpg

    Did about one full turn on the micro tilt. If you look at the fret marker where it meets the body, it's raised up 2-3mm maybe. Huge change to the angle. Raised saddles a bunch and raised bridge plate to almost above pickguard. Adjusted action up to a good spot, no fret buzz etc.

    But still warbles, just quieter. I feel it's a little too far from the pickup, I never played a guitar that had to be setup like this. If I raise the saddles anymore on the high E the screws will fall out. I mean I could keep raising the bridge plate, but it seems very high now as is.

    So I dunno, could I have bad magnets that are extra strong or something? I'm far from a tech or luthier but I'm confident in all the basic setup/maintenance issues to where usually I spot the problem. This one stumps me.
     
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  16. Mjh36

    Mjh36 Strat-Talk Member

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    Well after fiddling here and there with no success, I adjusted things back to how they were. Now it's worse, the sitar warble is also on my low A string up all frets. And also more audible on D string frets.

    I feel it may be because I was rough on my strings today, too much adjusting probably kinked it somewhere. I'll slap some new strings on there. This has been a thorn in my side for years with this guitar.

    Ya so the quest continues....
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2020
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  17. Ronkirn

    Ronkirn Most Honored Senior Member

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    try dampening the strings behind the nut.. just stuff a Kleenex in there for the moment... sometimes there will be sympathetic resonances that can excite the short sections of strings.. the results can be all over the chart.. Nothing to lose except a Kleenex..

    what causes the warble is something is causing the vibrations of the string to become asynchronous... Since you have tried so very many remedies.. try removing the Pickguard with the pups and then try the G String unplugged... if you still hear it you know it's not electronic...

    If you have some kinda mic you can surface mount it to the guitar body you can amplify the acoustic sound to hear it better.. plain old tape is fine..

    let us know how that works..

    r
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2020
  18. PCollen

    PCollen Senior Stratmaster Silver Member

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    Those pickups as shown look plenty far enough away to avoid stratitis....in fact, they are MUCH further away than any of my Strat's.
     
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  19. Lost Sailor

    Lost Sailor Strat-O-Master

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    I had a similar problem with the high e......I put a piece of paper in the nut slot and it went away......new nut fixed it
     
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  20. kurher

    kurher Strat-Talker

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    Have you adjusted the bridge saddle tops straight on top of the plate or are they angled?
    The screws should also be straight and pressing hard against the plate.
    You could also try a different string on the g, say a .015 if you're using a .016 plain.
     
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