Help -Selling a 1962 Olympic white

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Jimbo99

Senior Stratmaster
Jun 5, 2021
2,299
Palm Coast, FL
I'd approach Fender 1st to authenticate it. Carefully dismantle the neck from the body taking photos (maybe even a video) of the neck heel & neck pocket of the body. The issue I have with the "experts" as 3rd party, they only go with what photos you send anyway and Fender won't acknowledge/recognize any 3rd parties COA, just like Gibson or anyone else wouldn't. And they'll put together a nice pdf/printed book of a report if that makes their expert assessment any more credible, it's just a 2022 documentation of what the guitar is in 2022 as an opinion, not really fact as being there in 1962 by anyone. If a 3rd party expert is anything like the Pawn Shop videos, that expert does that and still can't say with 100% certainty. What I see that others pointed out in another thread is that the serial number is kind of imperfectly stamped on the neck plate. And that could be any Fender or fake Fender neck plate that was used after the original guitar was bought. The body has wear & tear, so it was played. I doubt anyone chases down a bridge plate/saddle cover for a strat that shows the wear & tear that I see in the photos for that part. The fretboard dots are the cool clay colored markers and look like they are discolored & worn. The translucent finish of the body, is it possible it's a Mary Kay Strat 1962 model with chrome silver & not gold hardware, whether replaced or OEM ?

I am no expert myself, but I'm not charging $ 75-?,??? for an appraisal. Heck I'm not even interested in buying the guitar or flipping it thru an auction to profit from a couple of resales or an estate auction. What I find strange is the alignment of the tremolo cavity cover. It's definitely one of those that has individual string holes, but from the angle, the E & A string ports seem misaligned with a quick restring that the whole purpose of having a rectangular cutout or individual ports to eliminate the need to remove the plastic to restring it. The pickguard is mint green, the trem cover plate is white. That much isn't original or at least I wouldn't think Fender would mismatch. For example, Squier did that with my 2016 Affinity, white pickguard/black Trem cover. Don't get me wrong, I'm not challenging the authenticity or anyone's integrity. Just commenting on what I see from limited photos. I have a gut feel any 3rd party expert is going to see that too and either convince themselves to believe it's authentic or not. And they won't be any more certain than you, I or anyone else.

The further the guitar deviates from OEM & even perfect condition as stored in a case or rarely to never played. I'd say your Dad probably bought it preowned just the same. Does your Mom recall when it showed up around the house. Was your Dad in a band or still have friends from back then that are still alive & may recall the day he bought it or about that time frame as a memory of a special time they recall from their lives ? Heck one of them might even be the original owner new or preowned.

With the photo of you and the guitar, the fact that he left you that specifically ? That must've been something in his head that he cherished. While you may not have any attachments to the object, he did have that in his head at the time, enough to capture the photo with he technology of the day and to me that's a priceless heirloom is my point. Everyone has a different perspective & memory of a loved one.
 
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Parksie

Strat-O-Master
Sep 6, 2020
912
Sydney
I'd approach Fender 1st to authenticate it. Carefully dismantle the neck from the body taking photos (maybe even a video of the neck heel & neck pocket of the body. The issue I have with the "experts" as 3rd party, they only go with what photos you send anyway and Fender won't acknowledge/recognize any 3rd parties COA just like Gibson or anyone else wouldn't. If a 3rd party is anything like the Pawn Shop videos, that expert does that and still can't say with 100% certainty. What I see that others pointed out in another thread is that the serial number is kind of imperfectly stamped on the neck plate. And that could be any Fender or fake Fender neck plate that was used after the original guitar was bought. The body has wear & tear, so it was played. I doubt anyone chases down a bridge plate/saddle cover for a strat that shows the wear & tear that I see in the photos for that part. The fretboard dots are the cool clay colored markers and look like they are discolored & worn. The translucent finish of the body, is it possible it's a Mary Kay Strat 1962 model with chrome silver & not gold hardware, whether replaced or OEM ?

I am no expert myself, but I'm not charging $ 75-?,??? for an appraisal. Heck I'm not even interested in buying the guitar or flipping it thru an auction to profit from a couple of resales or an estate auction. What I find strange is the alignment of the tremolo cavity cover. It's definitely one of those that has individual string holes, but from the angle, the E & A string ports seem misaligned with a quick restring that the whole purpose of having a rectangular cutout or individual ports to eliminate the need to remove the plastic to restring it. The pickguard is mint green, the trem cover plate is white. That much isn't original or at least I wouldn't think Fender would mismatch. For example, Squier did that with my 2016 Affinity, white pickguard/black Trem cover. Don't get me wrong, I'm not challenging the authenticity or anyone's integrity. Just commenting on what I see from limited photos. I have a gut feel any 3rd party expert is going to see that too and either convince themselves to believe it's authentic or not. And they won't be any more certain than you, I or anyone else.

The further the guitar deviates from OEM & even perfect condition as stored in a case or rarely to never played. I'd say your Dad probably bought it preowned just the same. Does your Mom recall when it showed up around the house. Was your Dad in a band or still have friends from back then that are still alive & may recall the day he bought it or about that time frame as a memory of a special time they recall from their lives ? Heck one of them might even be the original owner new or preowned.

With the photo of you and the guitar, the fact that he left you that specifically ? That must've been something in his head that he cherished. While you may not have any attachments, he did and to me that's a priceless heirloom is my point. Everyone has a different perspective & memory of a loved one.

Good luck getting any help from Fender.......
 

Bazz Jass

Chairman of the Fingerboard
Silver Member
Nov 19, 2014
5,797
Off the map
I'd approach Fender 1st to authenticate it. Carefully dismantle the neck from the body taking photos (maybe even a video of the neck heel & neck pocket of the body. The issue I have with the "experts" as 3rd party, they only go with what photos you send anyway and Fender won't acknowledge/recognize any 3rd parties COA just like Gibson or anyone else wouldn't. If a 3rd party is anything like the Pawn Shop videos, that expert does that and still can't say with 100% certainty.

Fender aren't really interested in verifying vintage Fenders. The company has changed hands a few times since then. Guys like Carters and Gruhn know far more about vintage strats than anyone at Fender. I'd also strongly caution against dismantling the strat yourself unless you are very familiar with the process. Even then, I'd proceed with caution.

What I see that others pointed out in another thread is that the serial number is kind of imperfectly stamped on the neck plate. And that could be any Fender or fake Fender neck plate that was used after the original guitar was bought.

The neckplate is fine. Very consistent with any other I've seen from that era.

The pickguard is mint green, the trem cover plate is white. That much isn't original or at least I wouldn't think Fender would mismatch. For example, Squier did that with my 2016 Affinity, white pickguard/black Trem cover. Don't get me wrong, I'm not challenging the authenticity or anyone's integrity. Just commenting on what I see from limited photos. I have a gut feel any 3rd party expert is going to see that too and either convince themselves to believe it's authentic or not. And they won't be any more certain than you, I or anyone else.

The pickguard is mint green, the trem cover plate is white. That's how they did it back then. These never match, I promise.

If it was me, I would waste no time personally taking a trip to Carters with the guitar. This is worth a life enhancing amount of money and needs to be done right.
 
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Colnago1

Senior Stratmaster
Sep 2, 2014
1,448
Where am I?
Fender aren't really interested in verifying vintage Fenders. The company has changed hands a few times since then. Guys like Carters and Gruhn know far more about vintage strats than anyone at Fender. I'd also strongly caution against dismantling the strat yourself unless you are very familiar with the process. Even then, I'd proceed with caution.



The neckplate is fine. Very consistent with any other I've seen from that era.



The pickguard is mint green, the trem cover plate is white. That's how they did it back then. These never match, I promise.

If it was me, I would waste no time personally taking a trip to Carters with the guitar. This is worth a life changing amount of money and needs to be done right.
How much is “a life changing amount of money”?
I don’t know about you, but I need more than $50k to really change my life.
 

Jimbo99

Senior Stratmaster
Jun 5, 2021
2,299
Palm Coast, FL
Good luck getting any help from Fender.......
Tell them you want a quote to refurbish like Gibson did with Allman's Layla LP & I bet the Custom Shop shows a little more interest to at least hear out what the customer wants done in a restoration. Honestly, with the Layla gold top LP, Allman traded that guitar away, so it wasn't anything special to Duane Allman even. A guitar worth $ 1.25 million at auction in 2019, he paid $ 700 for, traded it for a guitar 2 years newer and gave up a Marshall head & $ 200 cash. While I agree that the sale of this strat might be significant. Deal with that then, but get a better idea without having to overpay someone that flips guitars in the middle of an inflationary recession. If she doesn't need the money, there's no rush to move this guitar hastily. In the case of the Layla LP, it was refurbished, it really must've been a ragged out instrument when Gibson finally was tasked to fix it. And while Gruhn (Nashville) fixed Layla, they sent it to Gibson where their expert refinished it and filled in some wood that a puppy chewed on. As expert as they are, a refinish is a refinish, it's not original. So they all get around & bless the repair job, just like the local paint & body shop would for a 1974 Pinto that got into a fender bender. The older I get, I don't trust experts much anymore in 2022. This woman has been around that guitar since the 1970's from a documented photo, she knows more about the guitar than anyone over at Gruhn's or anywhere else, she's been around it for 40+-52 years depending on the date of the photo.

 

Parksie

Strat-O-Master
Sep 6, 2020
912
Sydney
Tell them you want a quote to refurbish like Gibson did with Allman's Layla LP & I bet the Custom Shop shows a little more interest to at least hear out what the customer wants done in a restoration. Honestly, with the Layla gold top LP, Allman traded that guitar away, so it wasn't anything special to Duane Allman even. A guitar worth $ 1.25 million at auction in 2019, he paid $ 700 for, traded it for a guitar 2 years newer and gave up a Marshall head & $ 200 cash. While I agree that the sale of this strat might be significant. Deal with that then, but get a better idea without having to overpay someone that flips guitars in the middle of an inflationary recession. If she doesn't need the money, there's no rush to move this guitar hastily. In the case of the Layla LP, it was refurbished, it really must've been a ragged out instrument when Gibson finally was tasked to fix it. And while Gruhn (Nashville) fixed Layla, they sent it to Gibson where their expert refinished it and filled in some wood that a puppy chewed on. As expert as they are, a refinish is a refinish, it's not original. So they all get around & bless the repair job, just like the local paint & body shop would for a 1974 Pinto that got into a fender bender. The older I get, I don't trust experts much anymore in 2022. This woman has been around that guitar since the 1970's from a documented photo, she knows more about the guitar than anyone over at Gruhn's or anywhere else, she's been around it for 40+-52 years depending on the date of the photo.


I recently contacted Fender to enquire about the Custom Shop finishing my 1961 Jazzmaster with a very rare Ash body.

I sent detailed images and history on the guitar to Fender and explained to them the rarity and the fact that based on this I felt Fender Custom Shop were the right people to do the job.

Here is the reply;

Hi,

I'm sorry to reply that the Custom Shop have indicated that they would be unable to assist with refinishing your guitar. I've been told that as a rule, they do not undertake any full or partial restoration projects.

Sorry we are unable to assist you further on this.

Kind Regards,

Customer Service Representative
Fender Music Australia

1653191534575.png



I felt this reply from Fender given the circumstances was extremely disappointing.
 

GuitarTalk

Strat-Talk Member
Oct 7, 2021
72
Canada
I'd approach Fender 1st to authenticate it. Carefully dismantle the neck from the body taking photos (maybe even a video) of the neck heel & neck pocket of the body. The issue I have with the "experts" as 3rd party, they only go with what photos you send anyway and Fender won't acknowledge/recognize any 3rd parties COA, just like Gibson or anyone else wouldn't. And they'll put together a nice pdf/printed book of a report if that makes their expert assessment any more credible, it's just a 2022 documentation of what the guitar is in 2022 as an opinion, not really fact as being there in 1962 by anyone. If a 3rd party expert is anything like the Pawn Shop videos, that expert does that and still can't say with 100% certainty. What I see that others pointed out in another thread is that the serial number is kind of imperfectly stamped on the neck plate. And that could be any Fender or fake Fender neck plate that was used after the original guitar was bought. The body has wear & tear, so it was played. I doubt anyone chases down a bridge plate/saddle cover for a strat that shows the wear & tear that I see in the photos for that part. The fretboard dots are the cool clay colored markers and look like they are discolored & worn. The translucent finish of the body, is it possible it's a Mary Kay Strat 1962 model with chrome silver & not gold hardware, whether replaced or OEM ?

I am no expert myself, but I'm not charging $ 75-?,??? for an appraisal. Heck I'm not even interested in buying the guitar or flipping it thru an auction to profit from a couple of resales or an estate auction. What I find strange is the alignment of the tremolo cavity cover. It's definitely one of those that has individual string holes, but from the angle, the E & A string ports seem misaligned with a quick restring that the whole purpose of having a rectangular cutout or individual ports to eliminate the need to remove the plastic to restring it. The pickguard is mint green, the trem cover plate is white. That much isn't original or at least I wouldn't think Fender would mismatch. For example, Squier did that with my 2016 Affinity, white pickguard/black Trem cover. Don't get me wrong, I'm not challenging the authenticity or anyone's integrity. Just commenting on what I see from limited photos. I have a gut feel any 3rd party expert is going to see that too and either convince themselves to believe it's authentic or not. And they won't be any more certain than you, I or anyone else.

The further the guitar deviates from OEM & even perfect condition as stored in a case or rarely to never played. I'd say your Dad probably bought it preowned just the same. Does your Mom recall when it showed up around the house. Was your Dad in a band or still have friends from back then that are still alive & may recall the day he bought it or about that time frame as a memory of a special time they recall from their lives ? Heck one of them might even be the original owner new or preowned.

With the photo of you and the guitar, the fact that he left you that specifically ? That must've been something in his head that he cherished. While you may not have any attachments to the object, he did have that in his head at the time, enough to capture the photo with he technology of the day and to me that's a priceless heirloom is my point. Everyone has a different perspective & memory of a loved one.
OP, please do not listen to any of this. Rest assured that your dad’s strat from the photos you provided looks 100% fine. @Bazz Jass provided solid advice above.

@Jimbo99 a simple google search would tell you that the back plate looks fine and would show you a bunch of examples for comparison. The model did 100% exist and was offered by fender as a custom order. Here’s a photo of my 1961 catalogue from Fender for definitive proof. As I mentioned earlier, I went thru the process of hunting for this blonde slab board pre-cbs strat myself less than a year ago. Absolutely NO ONE cares about Fender authenticating the instrument, Gruhn’s/Carter’s are much more reputable in the department of authentication.

1653191806009.jpeg
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1653191694476.jpeg
1653191707564.jpeg
 

Jimbo99

Senior Stratmaster
Jun 5, 2021
2,299
Palm Coast, FL
I'll go one further, if you're getting Gruhn in Nashville involved, I'd take Ron Thorn's (Fender Custom Shop) opinion and a Fender COA issued in 2022 over any other expert's opinion on the planet. If her Dad had the authenticity done & it wasn't Fender blessing it, that's just an opinion after the fact too.
 

Jimbo99

Senior Stratmaster
Jun 5, 2021
2,299
Palm Coast, FL
The pickguard is mint green, the trem cover plate is white. That's how they did it back then. These never match, I promise.
Since they don't date plastics, I'm just saying mismatched is a sure sign that someone may have partscastered the plastics for pickguard & trem cover. Do you really think there is an expert on the planet earth that could tell you if either was the original plastic part of the guitar. Would you believe them if they said it with a straight face even ?

I may start avoiding these threads with some of the challenges to whatever I post. It's almost absurd to defend every challenge. I stated that I noticed they didn't match. What is your take on the ports not lining up with the trem block string holes ? I think Fender would at least be close on the 2 fattest wound strings for alignment before that guitar shipped out ?
 

Jimbo99

Senior Stratmaster
Jun 5, 2021
2,299
Palm Coast, FL
I recently contacted Fender to enquire about the Custom Shop finishing my 1961 Jazzmaster with a very rare Ash body.

I sent detailed images and history on the guitar to Fender and explained to them the rarity and the fact that based on this I felt Fender Custom Shop were the right people to do the job.

Here is the reply;

Hi,

I'm sorry to reply that the Custom Shop have indicated that they would be unable to assist with refinishing your guitar. I've been told that as a rule, they do not undertake any full or partial restoration projects.

Sorry we are unable to assist you further on this.

Kind Regards,

Customer Service Representative
Fender Music Australia

View attachment 564320



I felt this reply from Fender given the circumstances was extremely disappointing.
Then again, maybe they just reissue a lost COA ? I'm sure they have the fee & usual criteria one has to meet for that to happen ?

 

Parksie

Strat-O-Master
Sep 6, 2020
912
Sydney
Then again, maybe they just reissue a lost COA ? I'm sure they have the fee & usual criteria one has to meet for that to happen ?


Fender may issue COA's but they are certainly not interested in restoring to the original Blond custom colour one of the rarest Jazzmaster's of 1961 thats for sure!
 

Jimbo99

Senior Stratmaster
Jun 5, 2021
2,299
Palm Coast, FL
a simple google search would tell you that the back plate looks fine and would show you a bunch of examples for comparison. The model did 100% exist and was offered by fender as a custom order. Here’s a photo of my 1961 catalogue from Fender for definitive proof. As I mentioned earlier, I went thru the process of hunting for this blonde slab board pre-cbs strat myself less than a year ago. Absolutely NO ONE cares about Fender authenticating the instrument, Gruhn’s/Carter’s are much more reputable in the department of authentication.
See this is what I'm talking about. Google photos are of authentic & fake neck plates. Can you really sit at your keyboard and type that, tell me which photos are of real neck plates vs fake ones ? Just because someone paid $ 500 for a $ 20 Fender part doesn't make some of those more real than a fake one. You & I are like anyone else looking for consistencies & inconsistencies in any photo. Date coded serials leave less doubt.

I never said the guitar model never existed. where did you fabricate that disinformation. The inconsistencies might suggest that the parts aren't original. They may not even be Fender parts.

And when you say no one cares if Fender has COA'ed a custom shop guitar, that Gruhn's/Carter's is more reputable than Fender is nonsense. I would take Fender's records for COA over anyone's for a Fender Stratocaster simply because Fender makes Fender guitars. If Ron Thorn looks at photos or the actual guitar itself and Fender has the records on file to reissue a COA, that's infinitely more credible than any guitar shop in Nashville when it comes to a fender guitar.
 

GuitarTalk

Strat-Talk Member
Oct 7, 2021
72
Canada
See this is what I'm talking about. Google photos are of authentic & fake neck plates. Can you really sit at your keyboard and type that, tell me which photos are of real neck plates vs fake ones ? Just because someone paid $ 500 for a $ 20 Fender part doesn't make some of those more real than a fake one. You & I are like anyone else looking for consistencies & inconsistencies in any photo. Date coded serials leave less doubt.

I never said the guitar model never existed. where did you fabricate that disinformation. The inconsistencies might suggest that the parts aren't original. They may not even be Fender parts.

And when you say no one cares if Fender has COA'ed a custom shop guitar, that Gruhn's/Carter's is more reputable than Fender is nonsense. I would take Fender's records for COA over anyone's for a Fender Stratocaster simply because Fender makes Fender guitars. If Ron Thorn looks at photos or the actual guitar itself and Fender has the records on file to reissue a COA, that's infinitely more credible than any guitar shop in Nashville when it comes to a fender guitar.
Okay, now Im convinced you’re just trolling and have never gone through the process of buying or selling a pre-cbs yourself. We’ve reached a dead-end Jimbo, fare the well 😩
 

Bazz Jass

Chairman of the Fingerboard
Silver Member
Nov 19, 2014
5,797
Off the map
Okay, now Im convinced you’re just trolling and have never gone through the process of buying or selling a pre-cbs yourself. We’ve reached a dead-end Jimbo, fare the well 😩
The OP's a smart lady. She's already indicated that she's contacted the right people, and I'm sure she'll get the advice she needs. This thread sure did get weird huh?
 
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