I Think I'm Done With Fender

Discussion in 'Sidewinders Bar & Grille' started by Ebidis, Aug 28, 2020.

  1. Glyderslead

    Glyderslead Strat-Talk Member

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    The Fender I knew in 1981 would have just told you to go away. So, like many, I've not been back for a new one. That said I’ve since got a few nice second hand ones and a bunch of partcasters made to suit my requirements.
     
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  2. grritz

    grritz Still 17 between the ears Strat-Talk Supporter

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    "...Im not a "flipper" or a "dolphin" lol so I just bring out a calc and let it do the work..."

    OK. Someone please educate me. I know what a "flipper" is. But...what is a "dolphin?"

    Thanks.
     
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  3. Anacharsis

    Anacharsis Strat-Talker Strat-Talk Supporter

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    The numbers show that the prices have in fact gone down, adjusting for inflation.

    That said, I am not going to tell other people what they should like. I don't object when someone decides they don't want to buy something I like. That would be stupid. Nobody's being insanely harsh, stating that Fender is Mr. Burns levels of sinister and sticking it to morons like me who pay for and like what they're building. A few of the implications from the more strident posts lean that direction, but I don't really care. I mean, what's it to me? People like what they like, and when you boil it down, that's all this is about.

    I think U.S.-made Fenders are good values for the money. Nothing in this thread has changed that for me. Unless I am missing a U.S. builder, it seems that paying people in the U.S. (among other places) enough to live on sets prices in the range in which Fender, Music Man, and G&L all operate.

    If you learn the skills involved, you can buy finished parts, assemble them, wire up the electronics, cut the nut, and do the setup yourself. There may be mistakes made, but if you really know what you like and you put in the time, this would yield very satisfying results. It's as close to custom as you can get without calling Ron Kirn or another reputable builder.

    I see people do price breakdowns of the partscaster approach, and there's often several "I had X laying around" and "you can find Y on Craigslist for next to nothing" sort of statements that each cut $50-$100 off their estimates in a puff of typing smoke. To me, apples to apples means buying all of the parts from someone's stock right now, with pricing you can link to and thereby repeat reliably (not trolling eBay and Craisglist for weeks or months in an "if you're patient" exercise). It also means presuming you don't have a collection of great pickups and pots lying around. If you count everything, you're not going to come out that far ahead unless you also do the finishing yourself.

    DIY costs time and additional, not-going-in-the-guitar materials to get set up at first. I don't have a workshop in my place in which to do that kind of thing, or even a work bench. I prefer to preserve my time. Before anyone says so, it's not in fact "lazy" to not want to build my own guitar. I work my balls off to make good money in part so I can afford to pay more skilled people in their respective fields to do certain things for me. Mind you - a great friend of mine (and great player) only plays partscasters, and building them is as much fun for him as anything else that he does. That's obviously a perfectly fine choice of a hobby all by itself, and he's gotten really good at setups - a skill for which other friends value having him around. But it's not an indictment of Fender prices.

    There are lots of very good guitars being made in countries with lower wages and regulatory expenses. Those guitars cost a lot less. If you like those, play them. I like and play some of them myself.
     
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  4. errikwong

    errikwong Strat-Talker

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    I think fundamentally you just have to ask yourself how much you are willing to pay for a guitar that has that "F branding". If you see no real value, good for you; there is a wealth of other brands to choose from. If you do see that value, then you either have to put up with what's being offered now; conversely, surely the second-hand market can help you scratch that itch.

    If the question is whether Fender's current offerings are worth what you pay for, then absolutely YES, but only a very narrow slice of their product offering qualifies as "bang for the buck" in my very biased and skewed opinion; the non-modified Vintera 50s Strat & Tele models, 70's Strat, as well as their non-modified Vintera Jazzmaster model being very compelling choices. As a player of around 20 years, and having owned close to 50 instruments in that time, I really see little value in Squiers or run-of-the-mill MIM Fenders due to lower build quality and electronics that leave you wanting.

    It might sound elitist, but I have an admittedly skewed and biased outlook on those instruments in terms of their actual build and performance, but I also find the USA models simply costing too much even though there are marginal improvements in the specification and build quality. To me, a guitar that is meant to be gigged or recorded should not need to cost a hard-working individual any more than US$1000 brand new.

    I've kind of given up buying new unless it's something truly compelling in terms of build quality & features for the price. Do I have the money to buy those Vintera models? Yes, but given that I am more inclined to pick and choose parts for less or similar money, and have the means to make these creations play and sound fantastic without the worry of warranty or "factory issues" means that I'll probably only acquire those models when they come on the second-hand market, if at all.

    To me, the "F-branding" in inconsequential because I have become incredibly picky about everything from the kind of hardware through to the choice of fret wire, pickups and even the weight of the body; something that no off-the-shelf instrument will completely satisfy at this stage. For all intents and purposes, I am a custom shop player who only has Vintera money and I own that with no shame. I just choose to put together my own guitars and let the instrument and my playing do the talking, rather than rely on the branding on the headstock.
     
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  5. The-Kid

    The-Kid Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter Vendor Member

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    flippers have always been around. No problem.

    A dolphin takes it to the next level. BlowHole and all "eeeh eee eeeeeeaaaeeeeaeee"

    the guys who bought a Vintera for 900 new.....and sell it on the market for a bit less 10% lower of what it was new and tries to sell it for 850$.. 825$......I see this All the time. people buy for some reason......it goes against all common sense....but they somehow manage to do it.....

    That's a Dolphin.


    The only reason we have these Dolphins is because people buy these used items from them at a high used price and accept it.


    This is not Fenders Fault. It's the Dolphins fault and the used buyer for accepting this culture and being a part of it.

    It's a new thing this mega tight pricing, Don't blame Fender. Blame the Dolphins
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2020
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  6. The-Kid

    The-Kid Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter Vendor Member

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  7. The-Kid

    The-Kid Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter Vendor Member

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  8. stylemessiah

    stylemessiah Strat-Talker

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    Im tired of these tools too....expecting to make their money back everytime they make a guitar purchase...usually because theyve not doen any research and make a regretful purchase....and expect others to pick up the tab

    But, im sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much more very tired of seeing people posting ads like:

    Vintage "e" Signature Squier from the golden days of FujiGen Gakki factory, and wanting todays prices like its Excaliber

    Guess what my first guitar was? One of those Squiers from the mythical signatures runs, and how was it? Fudging terrible compared to every Strat i ever bought after it, no really. I wouldnt take one if you paid me to take one.

    But theres a willing market only too happy to wildly overpay for nostalgic stuff that was run of the mill, led by people who like to spout their own improtant knowledge as gospel, leading countless people down a path of dissapointment
     
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  9. The-Kid

    The-Kid Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter Vendor Member

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    Yeah I got my FugiGen at good price I feel. 92 for 300$.....

    It's a Wayne's World....guys be wanting 500-600$ for these...mine wasn't in best condition and It's a player but yeah hit and miss and YYMV and agree here depending on how good it is and price....

    It just depends but overall yes....

    The Flippers\Dolphins doing this....is Not Fenders Fault ...buyers who participate and Dolphins who do this .......Fender can't control this.

    It's individuals in the market participating and enabling this culture not Fender
     
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  10. jtoomuch

    jtoomuch Senior Stratmaster Strat-Talk Supporter

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    I like Fender.
     
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  11. jtoomuch

    jtoomuch Senior Stratmaster Strat-Talk Supporter

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    Perception is reality. Just thought I'd throw that in.
     
  12. grritz

    grritz Still 17 between the ears Strat-Talk Supporter

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    OK...can we let this go now? What's left to discuss/debate?
     
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  13. Ebidis

    Ebidis Providing the world with flat bends since 1985 Strat-Talk Supporter

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    Seriously. Can this thread just die already?
     
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  14. The-Kid

    The-Kid Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter Vendor Member

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    Reality is reality.

    Facts are facts.

    Your entitled to your opinion or beliefs but your not entitled to your own set of facts or reality.

    Used makes no sense if the numbers are so tight.....prices for new strats are not high or "overpriced"

    Basic Math using a TI84 and a simple CPI calc not only explain this yeah but also prices for new strats have actually gone down over the years given CPI and inflation for an actual real comparison.......and as said a guitar priced so tight between used and new makes zero sense to buy

    Hopefully more people learned about opportunity cost and how to apply it so they wont get taken by a Dolphin as buyers in the used market are now.


    I think this thread is helpful to allot of dudes who are looking at used or new Fenders.

    It just makes sense......

    Its just common sense....

    Its just good for you......

    Its best for all players IMO to follow these guidelines in the thread when buying used or new to do whats best for them, their wallet and their rig.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2020
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  15. Stormy Monday

    Stormy Monday Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter

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    See what you started? Now go start a Gibson stinks thread
     
  16. Mouse

    Mouse The Knees of Rock Strat-Talk Supporter

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    I’ve been hankering for a Pete Anderson Eastsider S for quite a while. I actually forgot about them over the past couple of years until now. Thanks.
     
  17. Ebidis

    Ebidis Providing the world with flat bends since 1985 Strat-Talk Supporter

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    I kinda dig some of Reverend's models.
     
  18. Mouse

    Mouse The Knees of Rock Strat-Talk Supporter

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    I’ve never played one but they strike me as good value workhorses.
     
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  19. Ebidis

    Ebidis Providing the world with flat bends since 1985 Strat-Talk Supporter

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    I also like the designs. A little different, but not crazy.
     
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  20. circles

    circles Resident Pinball Enthusiast Strat-Talk Supporter

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