Is it worth it to mod a 1981 Tokai?

[Billie_J]

So I know it hasn’t been long since I’ve picked up this Tokai but the internal electronics are pretty low in quality compared to all my other strats. I’ve called my local luthier and got a general opinion, but I guess I’d just like to hear everyone else’s. He said that he has no problem routing out the pickup cavity to accommodate for humbuckers and such, but he made a good point that I should exhaust all other options to get the tone I’m looking for.

The thing about that is I haven’t found any single coil sized HB’s that can equate to my usual Bill Lawrence L500XL tone. He also mentioned that I would probably have to get a custom PG given the specs and measurements could be slightly off with aftermarket PG’s.

Any advice I will take. I would hate to route this guitar out and completely kill the value given it’s near mint condition

 

[guitarchaeologist]

You have to determine your personal financial (loss) comfort level, so the questions I would be asking myself if I were in your situation would be:
1) What is the real-world value of the guitar?
2) How much depreciation would occur if the body were routed to fit my needs? Let's say the value drops 25%.
3) Are you comfortable with that amount of potential loss?


For me, I would probably place my "don't touch it" level at about $3k, even though I've never purchased a $3K instrument. YMMV
For point of reference, a new MIA Strat is what, about $2200 and folks are modding those everyday.
At the same time, if it were mine, & my desired mimicked yours, l'd likely route for the pickup of my choice & do a full loaded pickguard swap, keeping the original unmolested. Just a thought.
EDIT: going back and reading others comments about leaving as is certainly has merit.

 

[Billie_J]

You have to determine your personal financial (loss) comfort level, so the questions I would be asking myself if I were in your situation would be:
1) What is the real-world value of the guitar?
2) How much depreciation would occur if the body were routed to fit my needs? Let's say the value drops 25%.
3) Are you comfortable with that amount of potential loss?

For me, I would probably place my "don't touch it" level at about $3k, even though I've never purchased a $3K instrument. YMMV

I definitely overpaid (at least that’s what I believe) for the guitar, $1600 after everything was said and done. I mentioned it to a buddy of mine about how I’ve considered keeping it stock and he said “You’re just keeping it that way for the next person, so it seems like you’ve already set in your mind that you’re going to sell it”. The only “don’t touch it” guitar I ever owned was a Kurt Cobain signature mustang that I got right when they were hitting the market. Stupidly I traded that guitar for a MIM 50’s classic Strat. Now that mustang is going for $3k plus on the market especially since it was the daphne blue stang. But to get back on topic, I don’t see myself selling this guitar. I now have my main 3 they’re all setup the exact same way minus the Tokai and a partscaster that has the bridge pup connected to the tone to allow me to muddy the tone or clean it up if needed.

 

[rolandson]

If not happy, why not just sell ?

Worth? Worth is relative.
You feel you over paid, so ...destroy it?

No. It's not worth it.
Anymore than it being worth it to carve up a strat or tele or LP from the same era.

You have a prime example of some superb guitar making. Certainly an order of magnitude beyond anything out of Corona or Fullerton around that time.

You must have thought so, or you wouldn't have bought it to start with.

But it's yours. Do what ya like.

 

[Billie_J]

If not happy, why not just sell ?

Worth? Worth is relative.
You feel you over paid, so ...destroy it?

No. It's not worth it.
Anymore than it being worth it to carve up a strat or tele or LP from the same era.

You have a prime example of some superb guitar making. Certainly an order of magnitude beyond anything out of Corona or Fullerton around that time.

You must have thought so, or you wouldn't have bought it to start with.

But it's yours. Do what ya like.

It’s not that I’m unhappy with the guitar, I love the guitar. The only downside is the tone of the bridge pickup. If I can find a single coil humbucker that I can get a similar tone to a Bill Lawrence I’d prefer that option

 

[3bolt79]

You paid 1600 for a Tokai? And now you want to destroy it? How about leaving it stock, and sell it when you can make a tidy profit? Better still, play it as is, for what it is. Buy another guitar and butcher it instead. Hopefully one that has no collectible value..

 

[stratman323]

Please don't butcher a poor innocent 1981 Tokai!! These guitars are beautiful pieces of Strat history, let it live unmolested!

Only yesterday there was a thread about a top end Springy that had been butchered by the fitting of a locking nut & a hideous modern trem. I assumed that sort of nonsense had ended with the 80s & that we all knew better now?

The Springy isn't right for you, I get that. There are plenty of guitars out there with humbuckers, locking trems & all sort of other non vintage things. So please, sell the Tokai to someone who will appreciate it as it is & buy something more to your taste instead.

 

[rolandson]

I didn't realize that Lawrence pickups were so overwhelmingly good that they warrant ruining a superb instrument just to accommodate them...

And here I've had one in the back of a parts drawer for the entirety of this century...Who knew!

Your guitar, knock yourself out. Me?

I can find more productive ways to turn $1600 into $800.

 

[Bane]

Might be best to sell it and buy something closer to what you want

 

[nigelr]

Leave it alone, you already have 3 that sound the same. Why not have something different?

 

[jvin248]

It’s not that I’m unhappy with the guitar, I love the guitar. The only downside is the tone of the bridge pickup. If I can find a single coil humbucker that I can get a similar tone to a Bill Lawrence I’d prefer that option

Permanent mods on the guitar like routing cut the value in half. That's your cost impact. Refinishing, repairing broken Gibson headstocks, routing the body, etc etc.

I'm assuming this 81 Tokai is a Fender Strat SSS copy ... not familiar with your other post... continuing on the path if it's an SSS setup:

Lift off the loaded pickguard and store it safely, to put back on the guitar if you ever decide to sell it. That way the guitar remains all original.

Buy a new pickguard (or use the old one if you need to but don't mod the pickguard) and pickups and control parts. Get a hotter bridge pickup or use a steel plate under the bridge pickup -- perhaps try a Jaguar bridge pickup with the metal 'teeth'. Jaguar coils have 7.5kohms while typical Strats are 6.0kohms. The metal reflects the magnetic field going out the back of the guitar toward the strings to increase output yet again (this is what a Telecaster does). You can also lower neck and middle pickups flush to the pickguard and raise the bridge pickup to get more difference in output. You can tip the pickups for more or less bass or treble.

Regardless .. when you wire up the new loaded pickguard of SSS pickups, use the Armstrong Blender mod. That allows dialing in tones between stock SSS and series HSH. Generic Strat 6.0kohm pickups in series give you a 12kohm humbucker tone. Or you roll it back for a PAF style humbucker in between.

A partial replacement is keeping the factory pickups, disconnecting the original controls in one piece, and then getting all new pots, cap, jack, switch to wire up and fit into the original pickguard with original pickups. Keep track of the old wiring harness to offer a future buyer if you go that way. Check out how often vintage guitar buyers want to know pot date codes and you'll see why it's important to keep the old parts unmodified.

.

 

[dirocyn]

Your Tokai is collectible in it's own right. That's why you just paid $1600 for it. They have a reputation for quality and a lot of people want one. That's why you didn't get it for the price of a 2000 MIM standard (which is just an old guitar)

The things collectors care about are originality, verifiability, and condition. At best, routing it for different pickups will cut the price in half. It could be worse than that, particularly if you remove the features people look for to identify the body.

Just imagine if someone put a swimming pool route in a 54 Stratocaster. Now nobody can say what the body is, so it's a 54 neck on an unknown and probably aftermarket body, maybe an amateur build.

On the other hand, it's your guitar and your money. You can set it on fire or whatever, if that makes you happy then go for it.

 

[El Gobernador]

Please don't butcher a poor innocent 1981 Tokai!

This.

 

[92 Fiesta Red 62]

You have to determine your personal financial (loss) comfort level, so the questions I would be asking myself if I were in your situation would be:
1) What is the real-world value of the guitar?
2) How much depreciation would occur if the body were routed to fit my needs? Let's say the value drops 25%.
3) Are you comfortable with that amount of potential loss?


For me, I would probably place my "don't touch it" level at about $3k, even though I've never purchased a $3K instrument. YMMV
For point of reference, a new MIA Strat is what, about $2200 and folks are modding those everyday.
At the same time, if it were mine, & my desired mimicked yours, l'd likely route for the pickup of my choice & do a full loaded pickguard swap, keeping the original unmolested. Just a thought.
EDIT: going back and reading others comments about leaving as is certainly has merit.

What he said, but my “don’t touch it” level is around $1800…by “don’t touch it” I mean a permanent modification (routing, etc)

…and the fact that this is now becoming a “vintage-esque” instrument, I wouldn’t touch it at all.

Switch out the pickups and/or electronics…but don’t rout the thing out.

 

[JonnyBGood]

Sell it and buy a guitar that does what you actually want. I have been keeping my eye out for an 80s Tokai locally for a while, last thing I'd want is one routed and stuffed with humbuckers etc, I'd tolerate a refret but that's it.

Muck around with it and you destroy the value of a collectible guitar (mint!) plus you might not get what you want in the end. Honestly this is a no brainer.

 

[Miotch]

People make new guitar bodies every single day that would attach to your neck and hold the pickup you want. But nobody is ever making a 1981 Tokai ever again.

You'd be money ahead buying a different body rather than routing the one you have.

 

[Billie_J]

Permanent mods on the guitar like routing cut the value in half. That's your cost impact. Refinishing, repairing broken Gibson headstocks, routing the body, etc etc.

I'm assuming this 81 Tokai is a Fender Strat SSS copy ... not familiar with your other post... continuing on the path if it's an SSS setup:

Lift off the loaded pickguard and store it safely, to put back on the guitar if you ever decide to sell it. That way the guitar remains all original.

Buy a new pickguard (or use the old one if you need to but don't mod the pickguard) and pickups and control parts. Get a hotter bridge pickup or use a steel plate under the bridge pickup -- perhaps try a Jaguar bridge pickup with the metal 'teeth'. Jaguar coils have 7.5kohms while typical Strats are 6.0kohms. The metal reflects the magnetic field going out the back of the guitar toward the strings to increase output yet again (this is what a Telecaster does). You can also lower neck and middle pickups flush to the pickguard and raise the bridge pickup to get more difference in output. You can tip the pickups for more or less bass or treble.

Regardless .. when you wire up the new loaded pickguard of SSS pickups, use the Armstrong Blender mod. That allows dialing in tones between stock SSS and series HSH. Generic Strat 6.0kohm pickups in series give you a 12kohm humbucker tone. Or you roll it back for a PAF style humbucker in between.

A partial replacement is keeping the factory pickups, disconnecting the original controls in one piece, and then getting all new pots, cap, jack, switch to wire up and fit into the original pickguard with original pickups. Keep track of the old wiring harness to offer a future buyer if you go that way. Check out how often vintage guitar buyers want to know pot date codes and you'll see why it's important to keep the old parts unmodified.

.

Thank you for reading through my whole post and pointing towards a single coil pup that might help me get a more beefy tone. I think a lot of people just read the first portion then started replying. I WANT to keep the original wiring kit, and I WANT to keep it original but I would also like to start gigging with it and not sound like a cats being shaved with a dull razor blade in the bridge position. The pots are 250k and the bridge sounds as though all the mids and bass are being sucked out of it and I’ve already adjusted pickup height.

If there are some p90 Strat sized pickups that you know have a solid tone I’ll even give those a shot too.

 

[Billie_J]

Please don't butcher a poor innocent 1981 Tokai!! These guitars are beautiful pieces of Strat history, let it live unmolested!

Only yesterday there was a thread about a top end Springy that had been butchered by the fitting of a locking nut & a hideous modern trem. I assumed that sort of nonsense had ended with the 80s & that we all knew better now?

The Springy isn't right for you, I get that. There are plenty of guitars out there with humbuckers, locking trems & all sort of other non vintage things. So please, sell the Tokai to someone who will appreciate it as it is & buy something more to your taste instead.

And I’m trying to avoid that at all cost. Maybe it’s just been a long time since I’ve played with 250k pots and strat bridge pups but this one sounds as though there’s no midd or bass just treble and yes I have adjusted the heights already. I was looking at some dimarzio’s or some Curtis Novak bridge pups because honestly I don’t want to change the middle or neck as the tone on those is very rich especially with the tone control

 

[dirocyn]

And I’m trying to avoid that at all cost. Maybe it’s just been a long time since I’ve played with 250k pots and strat bridge pups but this one sounds as though there’s no midd or bass just treble and yes I have adjusted the heights already. I was looking at some dimarzio’s or some Curtis Novak bridge pups because honestly I don’t want to change the middle or neck as the tone on those is very rich especially with the tone control

The pots cut out a little of the treble, they'll leave mids & bass alone. If you're used to humbuckers the single coils will seem trebly, it might be a good idea to set the amp specifically for this guitar, or turn down the tone knob.

Adding tone control to the bass pickup is just a matter of a short jumper wire on the switch, and is easily reversible.

 

[stratman323]

And I’m trying to avoid that at all cost. Maybe it’s just been a long time since I’ve played with 250k pots and strat bridge pups but this one sounds as though there’s no midd or bass just treble and yes I have adjusted the heights already. I was looking at some dimarzio’s or some Curtis Novak bridge pups because honestly I don’t want to change the middle or neck as the tone on those is very rich especially with the tone control

Does it have to be a humbucker? I'm not a big fan of the Strat bridge pickup & some of the Tokai pickups are too thin & bright for my tastes. The Duncan Twangbanger is supposed to sound like a Tele bridge pickup & I reckon it gets a good half way there. About 8k, fatter & warmer than most Strat bridge pickups but it doesn't overload position 2. No routing necessary. I love 'em.