Large sustain blocks + light gauge strings - tuning instability?

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metalone4

Strat-Talk Member
May 16, 2022
22
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I'm having a problem re-zeroing after any amount of pull-up (15-20 cents sharp on all strings). Dives return to zero every time and to get it to re-zero after a pull-up I need to do almost a full travel dive. All the hardware is new, strings fully stretched, setup is good.

I installed a fat block and I'm using 9-42 gauge strings with 3 springs (two of them angled) in standard tuning. I'm wondering if the fat block in combination with the light strings is causing the pull-ups to return sharp? Is it harder to re-zero that way because the light strings don't have the strength to pull the bridge back to neutral? Would installing 10-46 gauge strings help?

Not looking for answers telling me I'm an idiot for installing a large block in the first place...simply asking if the theory I explained holds water. Thanks ;-)

EDIT: The trem system is double-locking, so, no issue with the nut. I installed a new Schaller Lockmeister bridge with a fat block and new studs. The bridge that came with the guitar was heavily worn (both the studs and knives) and even worse stability-wise, hence the new hardware.
 
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Believer7713

Believer7713

The Pink Bunnyman Phranknstein
Silver Member
Dec 27, 2016
19,753
KC
I highly doubt it is the block or anything to do with the bridge. Normally when you have sharp notes due to pulling up it is due to binding at the nut. Make sure all of the slots are rounded at the bottom and the correct width for the strings.
Welcome to ST. We are here to help if we can.👍
 
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metalone4

Strat-Talk Member
May 16, 2022
22
N/A
Believer7713 said:
I highly doubt it is the block or anything to do with the bridge. Normally when you have sharp notes due to pulling up it is due to binding at the nut. Make sure all of the slots are rounded at the bottom and the correct width for the strings.
Welcome to ST. We are here to help if we can.👍
Click to expand...
Thanks! Sorry, I should have mentioned, it's a locking nut. Floyd Rose style system and I recently installed a new Schaller Lockmeister.
 
StratUp

StratUp

Dr. Stratster
Sep 5, 2020
12,835
Altered States
Did you change the block and change the string gauge at the same time?

To answer your question, the lighter gauge is causing a lesser amount of tension in the strings. They pull less than the heavier gauge did. You pull up on the trem and they pull back down with less force than a set of 10's would. So you have to do a down-bend to get them to pull back in position.

Adjusting the trem for less spring tension might cure it. But the root of the problem might be that the saddles aren't letting the strings move back... and the lighter gauge is just highlighting that issue. You might find a spring adjustment makes it better but doesn't cure it.

Edit: Spring, not string.
 
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metalone4

Strat-Talk Member
May 16, 2022
22
N/A
Ramblin'man said:
Check the pivot posts and bridge contact points for any irregularities., burrs, nicks etc.
Click to expand...
The hardware is brand new. I made sure not to adjust the action under tension too (yes, I know that's a debated topic...my approach was to err on the side of caution), so, no wear on the posts or knife edges.
StratUp said:
Did you change the block and change the string gauge at the same time?

To answer your question, the lighter gauge is causing a lesser amount of tension in the strings. They pull less than the heavier gauge did. You pull up on the trem and they pull back down with less force than a set of 10's would. So you have to do a down-bend to get them to pull back in position.

Adjusting the trem for less spring tension might cure it. But the root of the problem might be that the saddles aren't letting the strings move back... and the lighter gauge is just highlighting that issue. You might find a string adjustment makes it better but doesn't cure it.
Click to expand...
I didn't change the string gauge, just installed new strings along with a bridge swap. I installed a new Schaller Lockmeister bridge with a fat block and new studs. The bridge that came with the guitar was heavily worn (both the studs and knives) and even worse stability-wise, hence the new hardware.
 
StratUp

StratUp

Dr. Stratster
Sep 5, 2020
12,835
Altered States
metalone4 said:
The hardware is brand new. I made sure not to adjust the action under tension too (yes, I know that's a debated topic...my approach was to err on the side of caution), so, no wear on the posts or knife edges.

I didn't change the string gauge, just installed new strings along with a bridge swap. I installed a new Schaller Lockmeister bridge with a fat block and new studs. The bridge that came with the guitar was heavily worn (both the studs and knives) and even worse stability-wise, hence the new hardware.
Click to expand...

(Note the edit I made in my post).

Ah, I see. I read your post as just a block change, not a bridge change. I'm not really a FR guy, but I have worked with a two post a bit. Look for any sort of burrs on the posts and the knife edges with a very high power magnifier to make sure they don't have an manufacturing oddities. I would rotate the pivot studs 180 degrees as a diagnostic and see if that changes anything - a change would indicate a defect in the knife edge or studs. (Edit - a lack of a change doesn't mean they are OK; there could still be a little ridge all the way around impacting movement). Adjust spring (claw) tension for less tension and see if that helps.

Don't worry about getting the adjustments perfect for play... make them and try to nail down where the issue is. After you ID it you can work on fixing it and getting it setup the way you like.
 
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JJ119

JJ119

Senior Stratmaster
Jul 15, 2020
1,911
Mid West
Can you please post --

Pics of the Trem cavity
And
Side and top pics of the Trem as set up on the body?
 
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metalone4

Strat-Talk Member
May 16, 2022
22
N/A
StratUp said:
(Note the edit I made in my post).

Ah, I see. I read your post as just a block change, not a bridge change. I'm not really a FR guy, but I have worked with a two post a bit. Look for any sort of burrs on the posts and the knife edges with a very high power magnifier to make sure they don't have an manufacturing oddities. I would rotate the pivot studs 180 degrees as a diagnostic and see if that changes anything - a change would indicate a defect in the knife edge or studs. (Edit - a lack of a change doesn't mean they are OK; there could still be a little ridge all the way around impacting movement). Adjust spring (claw) tension for less tension and see if that helps.

Don't worry about getting the adjustments perfect for play... make them and try to nail down where the issue is. After you ID it you can work on fixing it and getting it setup the way you like.
Click to expand...

I should clarify, it was both a bridge change and block change. The stock block was a regular 32mm thinner block and the new block is a 37mm fat block (much more mass).
 
Believer7713

Believer7713

The Pink Bunnyman Phranknstein
Silver Member
Dec 27, 2016
19,753
KC
There is definitely a binding issue. I set all of my Floyds up with either 9-42 or 9-46 and once dialed in there's no issues. They all have large mass blocks too. Make sure the springs slide in the holes correctly and that the bridge pivots smooth.
Also make sure your nut locks are secure. I've seen the strings slide though them when someone is tepid about tightening them.

Edit: l now that I see you added 5mm to the length too, are you putting the back cover on? If so, the springs are probably catching on it. I have had that happen before. Remove the cover and all is well
 
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metalone4

Strat-Talk Member
May 16, 2022
22
N/A
El Gobernador said:
It's not returning properly.
Click to expand...
That doesn't necessarily mean the knife edges are hung up on the studs. I'm fully aware of that concept and how grooves in the studs or worn knife edges will cause that. As I said numerous times, this is pristine NEW German Schaller hardware.
El Gobernador said:
Truth hurts
Click to expand...
What "truth" are you even trying to convey? All you said was "mass is a myth". WHAT? Mass is mass....it's a thing. Whether you think larger sustain blocks matter is beside the point. As I already said, I'm not seeking anyone's opinion on what they think of big blocks. Either answer the question about light strings used with big blocks or kindly remove yourself from the discussion.
 
M

metalone4

Strat-Talk Member
May 16, 2022
22
N/A
Believer7713 said:
There is definitely a binding issue. I set all of my Floyds up with either 9-42 or 9-46 and once dialed in there's no issues. They all have large mass blocks too. Make sure the springs slide in the holes correctly and that the bridge pivots smooth.
Also make sure your nut locks are secure. I've seen the strings slide though them when someone is tepid about tightening them.

Edit: are l now that I see you added 5mm to the length too, are you putting the back cover on? If so, the springs are probably catching on it. I have had that happen before. Remove the cover and all is well
Click to expand...
It happens with the cover on or off. I actually have room for a 42mm block, there is plenty of room with the 37mm. I have no idea how there could be a binding issue. I already tested the nut and it's locked tight with no change in pitch when I push on the strings behind the nut. Like I said, the studs and bridge are brand new, no wear.
 
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