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Discussion in 'Pickup Forum' started by ITSGOTQUACK, Jun 18, 2012.
No It don't always sound good ,It works better with higher out pickups ,Vintage pups can sound thin
Yes. I split my 16.8 wind with an A8 and get great Tele tones, but again they are designed for splitting so you get options.
Screwing the screws down too hard,into the p/up, can break the coil wires. I've had it happen. Out, then back to normal should be fine...How about a piece of mumetal over the screws? It seems like it would redirect the field over to the poles of the active coil while blocking the dummy coil from sensing, like removing them. Then w it gone , back to normal.
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I did this before, it does not sound exactly like a single coil and it does not sound like Fender single coil. This idea is very common, by taking the poles out, the coil don't respond to the strings as much, but still response to the EM radiation from the surrounding thereby cancelling the noise. Nothing more than the Power House strat with the dummy coil close to the working pup.
I decided against this as it really sounded in between a hb and a single. I rather split the coil.
This is the same idea as the stack pup also like the Dimarzio Areas and VVs. In the Dimarzio, they carefully designed so the bottom coil sense very little of the vibrating strings so there is very little contribution to the sound. But the bottom coil still sense the hummy noise so it cancel the hum when connect in series with the top coil.
I can assure you that you loss the glassiness with this setup AND it is not switchable back to hb until you screw back the poles. This is absolutely useless.
I am even making a wild guess the SD Duck bucker uses the same idea, but instead they have 3 screw on one coil for one side of the strings. Then they have 3 screws on the second coil for the other three strings. Each string is sensed by only one coil, so you get more of the single coil sound.
Any dummy coil in series will attenuate the higher harmonics. Even the Zcoil or the GL type of smaller split coil. I never test the Zcoil, but it is like 6 individual small coils in series, each sense one string. The good thing is the smaller coils has less inductance so it attenuate less of the highs.
In theory, the only one that should work best is the Suhr large area coil. The large area allow a lot of the electromagnetic radiation from the surrounding to pass through the coil so more voltage induced each turn. Thereby less turn is need to get the same amount of cancellation voltage. So much less inductance. But still, if you listen to the Suhr demo, you can hear the difference between with the coil in series and without. Also, the big coil is very hard to match the pup, you can hear in their demo that noise cancellation is not very good to put it politely.
EXACTLY, which is why it is different than the split. I've messed around with some of my splittable pickups and get a totally different result when I split them and when I just yank the screws out. I don't like the split sound nearly as well on those particular pickups anyway. There are so few pickups that split well. The Dimarzio SD3 is one of the only ones that I really enjoy the spit sound on.
Thousands of people from around the world have written me and totally disagree with you and love the new, glassy sounds that they are getting. So, as long as they are happy, then it works and it makes their day. So stop taking a dump in their Wheaties
You are most welcome my friend. You gotta get that axe to cluckin' if you're gonna be pluckin' like a chicken. lol
I tested it, it sounded nothing like a single coil. It is very easy to test, just do it and you'll see.
There are a lot of work done on this already, so many patents writtened and published on using a dummy coil, this is nothing new. That's was the first thing I did when I started working on noise cancellation, it was so obvious to try as the first step.
Let me go a step further, if people want to do this, look at the SD Duck Bucker and take off 3 screws on one coil so you get a slanted pattern of sensing. Again, I am pretty sure that's how the SD Duckbucker works and the Duckbucker has been around like forever.
Also, lower the pup and raise the screws. This way, the dummy coil sit lower and pick up less of the signal from the strings. So you get less of the hb sound. The dummy coil do pick up the strings even there is no magnet in the middle. If you study the magnetic field patent, the field patent pass through the dummy coil also, and induce a voltage in the dummy coil.
???? It's just an idea that anyone can try with the gear that they've got and decide for themselves. Some may like it, some may not, but it's just a freely-offered idea that most of us haven't thought of. He's not trying to sell snake oil (or Duckbuckers) or get us to do anything that's dangerous or foolhardy! Even if it's not a new idea, credit is due for bringing it to light.
Here you go, listen again. It sounds EXACTLY like one. Not hard to hear this at all. Plus....the part that follows hasn't been done yet and is quite brilliant. Check it out.
Turn You Humbuckers Into Single Coils Part 2 By Scott Grove - YouTube
Thank you. See, this guy "gets it". It's a free option. So, if you OPT not to try it, then don't try it. No biggie.
Okay Scott since you are hell bent on being right, I will say it IT WORKS ON SOME PICKUPS. Not very many but some. For the neck and bridge all that it does is take some of the high frequency out of it. I just tried it on a set of BB3, 57 classics and some of my winds, with the right amount of amp tweaking it works to a degree. but it is still the same as tapping a pickup. You are still using both coils or rather most of both coils to achieve the same tone.
Every guitar player I have known since the late 70s has tried this mod. with the same decision...... Coil tapping is the exact same tone period. For all those that have tried ity and love very cool glad it worked, but just curious those that have how much amp tweaking did you do after words.
I tried this long time ago, I don't think it even sound as good as the coil tapping. It was more in between the hb and split coil.
As I said, I am surprised people that is into pups has not try this yet as all the talk about dummy coil for noise cancellation here. That's was about the first thing I tried when I started working on noise cancellation!!!
The biggest thing to me is taking what made the Gibson special and try to change it to sound like a Fender...........Why? At least if you put a hb on a Fender, you get the true hb sound even though it still sounds like a Fender.
I know this is something new to some people, the question is how many Gibson will stay having this setup after the initial excitement wear out and after a gig or two.
BTW, I don't know about others and I don't have the best ear, but the latest demo sounded nothing single coil to me.
I strongly encourage people to compare this to the split coil sound. They are not the same in any stretch. I explained in my first post here sighting the experiment I did with bypassing the bottom coil of the Dimarzio Area. Dimarzio manage to put a lower inductance dummy coil for cancellation ( as you can measure the resistance is quite low at about 1K only vs the standard hb coil of over 4K). Still there is a distinct difference when you bypass that dummy coil.
That's the reason I advice people here more than a few times. For those that like the Dimarzio VVs and Areas sound, but feel that it miss something because of the dummy coil, put a switch to short out the dummy coil and you get back the true sweet single coil sound but still sounds exactly like the original pup and you don't loose output. Then when you need to go high gain to play solo, flip the switch to get noise cancellation. With this, you get the best of both world. With this removal of screws, you lost the hb sound and you cannot switch back and fore.
Well, now I'm intrigued. Has Scott stumbled across some well-known secret of the pickup-tweedler's cabal that other folks must be steered away from? And what's this mysterious thing called "coil tapping", hitherto unheard of on the Internetz?
Wow. I'm not understanding why it's so important to steer people away from the quick and easy, low-committment experiment of removing 6 or 12 screws... towards coil-tapping, which requires removing strings to remove the pickguard and pickups, figuring out the non-standardized color-coding of the coils' leads, adding switches, and soldering stuff according to a wiring diagram. Obviously, that's not a two-minute job, and requires more skill than the ability to wield a screwdriver. Anyone who's aware of coil-tapping probably realizes that removing pickup screws is not something you'd want to do in the middle of a song at a gig. For guys that just want to futz around with their guitars, it's a fun experiment, and easily reversible. What does it matter whether they get tired of it after a day, or week, or year?
I wasn't going to bother (since I have Strats and LPs) but the Ibby appreciation thread reminded me that my RG2550 "SuperStrat" would be a good candidate. I'd wired it with an Ibanez proprietary 2-pickup switch for their series-parallel combinations. I'd always wished it sounded thinner and balanced better with my Strats (especially with its onboard Rat2), without having to get a pickguard custom cut for noiseless single coils. It probably took a little longer than 2 minutes to remove the hex screws, but it gave a better volume balance to the 5 selector positions by making some series HB positions sound thinner. They don't have as much high end as true single coils (except for the parallel positions), but that's true of most noiseless "single coils" too. Count me as a happy camper; much easier and faster than digging around in the guitar's innards.
Pookie i understand what you are saying and that is very cool that you dig it, but in a real world app such as live playing you just lost "options" For home playing user preference. Coil tappinfg does the same thing and you have the option of either or. Now there is a difference between tapping and splitting.
Tapping you pull power from both coils which is what you are doing now but have the option to go back with the push of a knob.
Coil splitting is well you split the coils therefore only pulling from one coil. Again you are not stuck on stage with a tech having to put the screws in before you use the guitar again.
It is not some magical secret but a known mod for decades, not trying to steer anyone from it just trying to point out
1) it does not always work,
2) that the same goal can be reached by coil splitting.
I know i said tapping before and I mis spoke. So again if you dig that is all that counts. All I am trying to say is it does not always work.
I never said don't try it. I just said I tried it long time ago and it did not sound like SC in any stretch.
Many of us really spend a lot of effort to conquer the hum and preserve the SC sound. People had done research and work on this to come to where we are today. People take this quite serious. It is really something to hear someone pulling out something so basic to talk about it as if..............
Of all passive dummy coil noise cancellation, about the only one that come close to my standard of judgement is the Suhr that I explained. Still there is a distinct difference in the sound. AND still you hear people bought it and took it out later.
I for one said, try it. I would like to have people really try it, do a gig or two, give it time to try out. Then come back and give feedback. Then tell us whether they keep that or not.
There is a big difference between a tinkerer and a working musician. Tinkerer sit at home, get amazed by all the little things. Then there are musicians that play gigs in real live. The two are just so different. Remember the Fender S1 switching came out, people were ooh and ahh about it. Now all you hear is people taking them out.
Talk is cheap, try it, report back in a month and tell us whether it is still a permanent mod on the guitar.
Coil tapping sounds a lot better. I am one of those that like the SC sound of some big hb pups over the real strat pup. This mod don't sound anything like split coil. Magical secret?!!! What magical secret. I tried this at the very beginning when I start working on noise reduction long time ago and diss it out right.
I take that you are a winder from your avatar of being a vendor. I am an electronic engineer for many years. I am sure those of us that put a lot of heart and soul working on these stuff, had at one point of time tried this and totally dismissed that it's not even worth mentioning. This is such an involve topic and so many people have put so much time into this...........................
It doesn't sound like you're familiar with the Ibanez 3PS1SC5 switch -- it's not a simple 2 or 4 pole selector, and in some positions does split coils (grounding the center tap of each pickup, leaving 1 coil in each active). But that's not really relevant since that guitar is here, not there, and I know what it sounded like before and after. I have another Ibby with the same wiring, so it's easy for me to A/B the two. I'm actually more interested in the application and results than the theory (and am not about to map out that switch's truth table again to prolong the agony).
The argument of losing options is silly-- I have single coil Strats that don't have humbuckers or S-1 switching and haven't lost anything by them not having a dual mode: They are what they are. Similarly, a humbucker with missing slugs is what it is-- if I prefer the slugless sound and don't want the full HB sound, I'm not missing anything. If I change my mind later, I can put them back in. Or use another guitar with full humbuckers.
(Talk may be cheap, but that depends on your service plan... ) As for being a real-world working musician, playing live gigs: I don't think that's relevant or a requirement of posting here (and sounds kinda snotty). Recording is a valid real-world application of guitar technology, as is noodling and jamming... and tinkering! Yes, I did play in a band during high school, college and for a while post college, so I'm aware of the benefits of keeping it simple, having reliable gear, and not being distracted by toys (which includes things like a guitar with plethora of switching options). However, I fail to see how changing the sonic character of pickups in a guitar is any different from switching between a Strat, LP, and Rick. If it doesn't fit or cut through what you're playing, use a different guitar or make it work by tweaking your amp.
I've just started playing around with the S-1 switch/SuperSwitch combo in a Strat, and am cognizant of the fact that switching so many poles simultaneously could cause reliability issues: That goes to the issue of keeping it simple if you're in a one-take, live situation. (Taken to an extreme, the safest bet would be to use a single pickup guitar with no selector.) However, as I mentioned, it's not all about live playing.
But dang! How many peripheral issues can you drag into what was a simple thread about a guy showing a mod, backed up with videos? (Pleeease don't answer that! ) Heck, I'm not even sure of what point you're trying to make except, "Scott bad! Ignore Scott!" and to display your learningedness. Okay, noted.
So you have your Ibanez mod that way?