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Maybe a '59 Stratocaster

Discussion in 'Pre-CBS Strats (before 1966)' started by scrooge, Oct 27, 2019.

  1. scrooge

    scrooge Strat-Talk Member

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    But being cautiously interested and running and buying it blind thinking it´s a good deal are different things.
    Everybody starts with less knowledge than others who are longer into something, but I´m trying to gather informations and if I´m not sure I try to ask sb.

    edit:
    What got my attention was also, that according to the ad the guitar is within 1 hour drive from me, and thats a rare find here in Austria
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2019
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  2. Bazz Jass

    Bazz Jass Chairman of the Fingerboard Strat-Talk Supporter

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    I understand - I wasn't being critical of you :) I'm being critical of the seller!!

    Sadly we are seeing more dubious listings like this, due to the high demand for such guitars. We who come here are lucky, as we learn and have friends to help us with listings like this. But I can't help feeling people with no knowledge, or very little research end up buying fake guitars - even ones that have quite obvious warning signs.

    As @Mipstoo says, there are legitimate guitars available for the money this guitar is listed for, and you couldn't find safer recommendations than what you'd get from him
     
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  3. Ferpie

    Ferpie Senior Stratmaster

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    Seriously tho, even if it was real, it would be an odd one with a bunch of odd things that more or less add up. There’s dozens of guitars that would be worth 12k and wouldn’t make you look at it with a suspicious eye until the day you have enough of it and try to sell it and stumble upon a guy that knows everything and confirms to you this is in fact a dog and you then end up either trying to fool somebody into buying it and feel bad or lose a serious amount in this.

    Just mho
     
  4. fretWalkr

    fretWalkr Strat-Talk Member

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    First thing that I noticed was the atypical wear on the back of the neck. The finish looks worn on the outer sides of the neck but the middle of the neck is glossy. Also, the wear is in a strange spot, around fifth to ninth fret. Most honest wear I would expect to see around the first four or five frets.

    I guess it could be from an old style capo or something like that. But from the other comments it sounds like the neck has other anomalies as well.
     
  5. Ferpie

    Ferpie Senior Stratmaster

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    Here’s an other thing i noticed over the years, it seems most 54 through 59 had a much more smooth transition at the headstock like so

    64CD8F3A-110D-4106-A36E-15AEA76DE284.jpeg

    While the sharper lines seem to have appeared in the 60s...
    11E7D322-DB67-4400-809F-63ECBFEA81E8.jpeg

    I’ve tried to prove myself wrong on this a couple of times and have yet to find one...
    anyone?
     
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  6. jimlincontinental

    jimlincontinental Strat-Talker

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    I honestly think this neck is a 1983 JV Squier Japan neck. The truss rod seems to be at the exact same position.
    I'm not seeing any tooling marks in the body either and I can't see the strings sitting in the block. That would assume that it is not a original trem block with a correct depth.
    It's a total fake, run away from it.
     
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  7. jimlincontinental

    jimlincontinental Strat-Talker

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    Oh, and the number '8' on the neckplate doesn't match at all with the original stamped '8'.
     
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  8. scrooge

    scrooge Strat-Talk Member

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    Thanks so much for your help, I knew many of those things like trussrod position and so on but only after reading over them they came to my mind again. I agree with the JV neck theory, first I thought it could be a fullerton but the dot spacing was wrong for that.
    I wrote the seller and told him the opinion that it´s not original - never heard again.

    Here are the listings, so you can form an opinion on the seller. In the meantime I found it on also on ebay

    https://www.willhaben.at/iad/kaufen...ender-stratocaster-pre-cbs-vintage-337842507/

    https://www.ebay.de/itm/1959-Fender...081938?hash=item4b6d498512:g:258AAOSwTuVdryxg
     
  9. Mipstoo

    Mipstoo Senior Stratmaster

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    Almost 100% sure the current seller bought it thinking it was real from an Italian seller.
    I get more and more requests to evaluate purchases lately and have been seeing more and more fakes being sold.
     
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  10. Nokie

    Nokie Strat-Talk Member

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    It would be good to see the headstock decal. If it has the rounded tip to the E's, then we would immediatly know it's at least a repro decal and would lend more to the notion that the neck is not legit.
     
  11. RL21980

    RL21980 Strat-Talker

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    Looks like a killer "relic" can't speak to it being the real McCoy.
     
  12. bandmaster

    bandmaster Strat-Talker

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    I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. 12k that's ridiculous.
    The neck, what a joke. Neck date (fake) 3-59, the slab-boards came around July. Even if it would be an early prototype
    it's completely wrong, than it should have the skunk stripe the walnut plug as well.
    If you serious about a vintage Fender try Tone Nirvana in Munich. This guy seems to be honest and knows his stuff. He is not cheap. I've been to his store and he seems to really know vintage guitars and amps.
     
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  13. azharkamal

    azharkamal New Member!

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    Dear Fellow Stratist,
    I own vintage strats from 56-65 in both varieties,i.e. maple and rosewood necks.They each have their strengths and I like every guitar for it’s specific position, i.e the 56 has the most amazing bridge pickup, the 57 in the middle whereas the 65 is totally Mindboggling in the neck(i do use the original 3 ways)BUT the guitar which does them all in is my PRS SSKy. Do yourself a favour and check one out. Save 10k and take the family for a nice holiday. In any case the guitar you show appears a bit cobbled together.....none of my vintage guitars,although also much played by me(until I bought the SSky.I am a professional player)looks like the guitar you show. If all the appointments are genuine I would pay max 4-5k if I LIKE THE WAY IT SOUNDS,FEELS,PLAYS.As a cash hoard this instrument will be useless....
     
  14. shreddocaster

    shreddocaster New Member!

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    I noticed that the saddles say Fender instead of Pat. Pending. Is that normal for a 59?
     
  15. tigger6

    tigger6 Strat-Talk Member

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    They say fender pat. pending. That would be OK but they look like new made ones. There are 2 or 3 different new types that say Fender Pat. Pending.
     
  16. Wayfinder

    Wayfinder Strat-Talk Member

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    That is absolutely, definitely, without doubt not a '59 Strat.

    There, right or wrong... I just saved you 12.5k Euros. ; )
     
  17. gm1cusnr

    gm1cusnr New Member!

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    What year did Fender change from the 07 screw pickguard to 11 screw type - wasn't it 1963 ? (Eleven screw hole pickguard and body w/ extra shoulder vs. 07 screw hole w/o shoulder observed...)
     
  18. Bazz Jass

    Bazz Jass Chairman of the Fingerboard Strat-Talk Supporter

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    There was never a 7 hole guard. Only 8. Changed to 11 in 59 with a few rare 10-hole guards in between.
     
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  19. Adam Wolfaardt

    Adam Wolfaardt Strat-Talker

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    I have noticed this too. It gets worse after the CBS takeover too. On of the many reasons why I prefer 50s fenders by far
     
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  20. Supervillainmc

    Supervillainmc New Member!

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    Definitely a $3 dollar bill
     
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