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Most fundamental and maybe dumbest theory question ever.

Discussion in 'Tab & Music Forum' started by RaySachs, Jul 12, 2019.

  1. heltershelton

    heltershelton BANNED Strat-Talk Supporter

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    I'm....um.....gonna go grab a beer.
     
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  2. rafasounds

    rafasounds Senior Stratmaster

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    Like verbal language, both spoken and written, there is/was a common agreement that was firmed overtime in favor of a more universal ground. "We" - that is, the humans involved in this process overtime - have agreed to use the same letters in the unified system called alphabet. We have agreed that "tree" most of the time means what it means when not taken metaphorically.

    In terms of music, rhythm came much before any systematization of tones or notes. There are plenty of systems for musical notes other than our western system. Some cultures divide notes differently, using microtones or commas, which results in a different number of notes. If we think about the human voice, which is the original melodic instrument, it is capable of reproducing any tone in a linear scale including all minuscule micro-tones and commas between our standardized "notes" - think of a very long glissando from the lowest note you can reproduce until the highest note. Humans in many different cultures took these pitches from the human voice as the foundation for any further systematization.

    Overtime, as music progressed in our western culture, it became acceptable by the majority of musicians that it was a positive thing if everybody could use the same system and therefore "speak the same language" - in terms of the notes and pitches and notations used.

    I don't know if this adds to the topic or digresses. Sorry if it's the latter. There are more specific events in the course of music history that could be pointed out. This is just how I see this in general lines.
     
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  3. dogletnoir

    dogletnoir WBLV Strat-Talk Supporter

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    "Can anybody come up with a reason that it wouldn't [work], other than
    everyone who's already invested so much time in the current system losing their minds?"

    LOL, if that's not enough of a reason for you... then start writing music in 'AL'.
    i have a friend who is learning the bass, and she hated the numbering of the strings from high to low as 1 - 4.
    i had to agree that she had a point, especially since the low E string on a guitar in that system is 6, not 4.
    So when i show her stuff, i use an inverted numbering system, where the lowest string is 1.
    Of course, that convention doesn't work for my 7 and 8 string ERGs, but it's all about what works for her when i'm showing her stuff.
    The point is 'how easy is it to communicate concepts and ideas?', and that becomes easier when we both use a common terminology,
    no matter what that is. We just have to agree on it.

    In AL, is A still the pitch at 440 hz (let's not even get into A = 432hz or other ref pitches for now, LOL)?
    Then an A chromatic scale :
    A A#/Bb B C C#/Db D D#/Eb E F F#/Gb G G#/Ab A in 'AL' is
    A B C D E F G H I J K L A

    So in AL, an A Minor 7 chord would be A D H K?
    An A Major 7 would be A E H L?
    This would only be in equal temperament, of course...
    in other tuning systems, A# and Bb are not the exact same pitch, but we won't get into that either.
    :whistling:

    'Too logical not to work'?
    Only if you want to discard the whole rational diatonic harmonic framework that Western tonal music is based on.
    If you understand that a major 7 chord is 1 3 5 7, and a minor 7 chord is 1 b3 5 b7, the alterations of the names of the pitches
    makes sense. The RELATIONSHIPS are much clearer, and that is logical imo.
    AL would certainly work for a system of 12 tone music not based on diatonic triads, (athough it would probably still be a PITA to write
    and/or read notation in) but i'm thinking that's not where you are trying to go with this.
    Still, if AL makes sense to you for what you want to play/write, then go for it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2019
  4. Wrighty

    Wrighty Senior Stratmaster

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    I’ll join you................
     
  5. duzie

    duzie Senior Stratmaster

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    You might want to grab a few
    We’re going to be here a while!
     
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  6. duzie

    duzie Senior Stratmaster

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    JD straight up for me :D
     
  7. Biddlin

    Biddlin Senior Stratmaster

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    Blame Guido of Arrezzo, or thank him for making it a short and easy to memorize alphabet.
     
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  8. Dumpster Chicken

    Dumpster Chicken Strat-Talker

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    You're over thinking it. Just pick up your strat and play.
     
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  9. DaveTone

    DaveTone Strat-O-Master

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    Is this from the Greece that is now (and has been) in dire economic straits for years? Those parts not currently on fire that is.
     
  10. duzie

    duzie Senior Stratmaster

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    Not to derail the thread but speaking of Greece
    I present to you the God of Thunder !
     
  11. BobbyS

    BobbyS Strat-O-Master

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    annnnd, water is wet
     
  12. RaySachs

    RaySachs Senior Stratmaster Strat-Talk Supporter

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    No, I'm cool with it as it is. I have 40 years in with it and probably not more than 20-25 left in total and I don't want to spend any of them relearning the relatively meager amount I understand. I'm just attracted to simplicity, even if it takes a convoluted screaming hell complex process to get there... ;)
     
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  13. simoncroft

    simoncroft Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter

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    Luckily for me, someone else has done a good job of answering that question: https://music.stackexchange.com/questions/5374/what-is-a-transposing-instrument

    However, I'll add in a little insight of my own. Before French horns had valves, they were essentially a 'one key' instrument, known as a 'natural horn'. Orchestral composers often wanted a piece to be in a particular key, so 'natural horns' soon came with a whole kit of extention tubings called 'crooks'. Adding one or more of these to the mouthpiece end of the instrument, put it into a different key.

    From the horn player's perspective, executing the part was the same, regardless of which crook was fitted. Therefore, it made more sene to notate all horn parts as if they were in the same key, but add an instruction at the start to use a crook that put the horn into the intended key.

    It's a bit like saying: "Put the capo at fret 3, then play this open E chord. Despite the fact it will actually sound G major, the instruction is easier for the player to understand.

    As for the entirely understandable question "why C to C"?...

    Play piano for a bit, until the naturals, sharps and flats become familiar to you. Try to associate the notes on the keyboard with the dots on the stave. Once you start to do that, it doesn't really matter what you call the notes. E,G,B,D,F could just as well be Z1,Z2,Z3,Z4,Z5 from a purely conceptual standpoint. It's musical notation, not a subset of every-day language.

    However, if you decide to give notes entirely new names, please don't ask me to play a Z5b5!
     
  14. dogletnoir

    dogletnoir WBLV Strat-Talk Supporter

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    "Why C to C?"
    i'm guessing it has something to do with vocal range, and church singing way back when:
    Tenor
    [​IMG]
    Voice Type: Tenor, Range: C3 – B4
    Tenor is the highest male voice type you will find in a typical choir. Though it is the voice type with the smallest range, it barely covers 2 octaves from C3 to B4, tenors are the most sought after choir singers for two major reasons. The first reason is that there aren’t as many men singing in choirs to begin with. The second reason is that most men, singers or not, fall under the baritone voice type.
    In the opera, the primo uomo is most often a tenor, and you will know he is a tenor because of the ringing quality in his voice. A true tenor has a high tessitura, above the middle C4, and uses a blend of head resonance and falsetto, as opposed to falsetto alone.
     
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  15. Bowmap

    Bowmap I nose a thang or two. Gold Member

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  16. amstratnut

    amstratnut Peace thru Music. Strat-Talk Supporter

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    Wouldnt it be more accurate to go thru the entire alphabet 3 1/3 times?

    88 piano keys??

    Or, just name them 1-88.

    Screw the other instruments.
     
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  17. Bcorig

    Bcorig Strat-O-Master Strat-Talk Supporter

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    I love this site!!!
     
  18. Bcorig

    Bcorig Strat-O-Master Strat-Talk Supporter

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    I love this website. Who needs Rick Beato? Actually, I do...
     
  19. ZlurkCorzDog

    ZlurkCorzDog INMATE #7XX7XX7 Strat-Talk Supporter

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    If you don't mind would whip up a large batch of popcorn while you're at it.

    Never mind, I got some.

    422.gif
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019
  20. jaxjaxon

    jaxjaxon Strat-Talker

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    I think it was a way to help the musicians make money by appearing more knowledgeable than others with their complicated language,mostly composers. I would also like to know why there isn't a 1/3 note. you have 3/4 time that only uses three notes to a measure.
     
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