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Music Theory Q and A Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Tab & Music Forum' started by davidKOS, Sep 22, 2013.

  1. fezz parka

    fezz parka The Wiggler of Sticks Strat-Talk Supporter

    Am is the i. Small case when minor, upper case when major

    Resolve to A, C, or E to play it safe. G if you want that minor 7th sound. Resolution is from dissonance to consonance. You want consonance. :D
     
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  2. Cerb

    Cerb Senior Stratmaster

    Age:
    37
    Jan 22, 2016
    Sweden
    It makes sence :)

    F, G, A, Bb, C, D, E....

    Hmmmm, almost made sence.
     

  3. fezz parka

    fezz parka The Wiggler of Sticks Strat-Talk Supporter

    Almost ain't close enough. G minor. :D

    A better way to look at it is this :

    What is the relative major to G minor?





    Also, and this is a pet peeve of mine I brought up in another thread:

    Songs/tunes aren't in "modes". They have a key center. Look at the staff. It has a key signature, but nowhere on it is a "mode" . ;)
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2017
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  4. Omar

    Omar Most Inquisitive Junior Member Strat-Talk Supporter

    691
    Aug 9, 2017
    Marbella, Spain
    Thank you, Chris :)

    F to Am -> resolve to i (A) 3rd to 1st, correct?
     

  5. fezz parka

    fezz parka The Wiggler of Sticks Strat-Talk Supporter

    Here's your A natural minor progression.


    F is the VI. Am is the i.

    FWIW, there's no "correct" resolution. There's good choices, consonant choices. Use what sounds good to you...what fits to what you're trying to say. :D
     
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  6. suncrush

    suncrush Senior Stratmaster

    Mar 25, 2014
    Pittsburgh
    I disagree. Songs with a tonal center of A can have 2 or 3 sharps in the key signature. If you see two sharps, and it resolves to A, it ain't in D.
     

  7. fezz parka

    fezz parka The Wiggler of Sticks Strat-Talk Supporter

    Really ?
    Give a key sig example of something in A major with two sharps. Because...that's D major. Subdominant of A.
     

  8. suncrush

    suncrush Senior Stratmaster

    Mar 25, 2014
    Pittsburgh
    It's not. It's in a mode. (Mixolydian, specifically. Think Sweet Home Alabama.) I was refuting your argument that songs aren't in them.

    You can also easily write music that centers on A with 1 sharp, which is Dorian mode (think Drunken Sailor).
     

  9. fezz parka

    fezz parka The Wiggler of Sticks Strat-Talk Supporter

    Well, that's your view. And strictly the way a lot of post '68 guitar is taught. Songs aren't in modes. They're in keys.The seven Modes are derived from the major scale. Mixolydian is the 5th degree of the major scale. Its not a key center.


    @davidKOS, what say you?
     

  10. suncrush

    suncrush Senior Stratmaster

    Mar 25, 2014
    Pittsburgh
    I mean, I guess you're right in that it's my view, but it's not like I came up with it. It's the underlying theory of many folk music traditions and eastern church music.

    The western theory based version you're advocating for completely melts down when confronted with things like Byzantine and Hungarian minor scales. Perhaps some mental flexibility is valuable over a steadfast adherence to the arbitrary decisions made when people decided how Western Europe music was going to be written down.
     

  11. montemerrick

    montemerrick spiritual birthday, April 1 Strat-Talk Supporter

    @davidKOS - Strat-Talk's own Marshall McLuhan
     
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  12. montemerrick

    montemerrick spiritual birthday, April 1 Strat-Talk Supporter

    The song in question though isn't eastern church music - it's american public spectacle - ecstatic and devotional, but not Byzantine or Hungarian!
     

  13. suncrush

    suncrush Senior Stratmaster

    Mar 25, 2014
    Pittsburgh
    No, but tons of surf rock is Byzantine or Hungarian minor. And tons of other rock songs are in folk-inspired modes. They're worth understandingon their own merits.
     

  14. fezz parka

    fezz parka The Wiggler of Sticks Strat-Talk Supporter

    When I see one sharp in the key sig, it's in G (Or Em), not A. Go ahead and be as flexible as you want. When I read a chart, I don't see modes. I see key center, tempo, intervals/chords.:D


    Example:
    [​IMG]

    One sharp. Key of Em. Tempo info. No mention of modes.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2017
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  15. Omar

    Omar Most Inquisitive Junior Member Strat-Talk Supporter

    691
    Aug 9, 2017
    Marbella, Spain
    I really struggle with what I want to stay, or what so-called “creating a story”. I play what sounds good to my ears. If I hear something wrong, I avoid it in next Bar. :)
     
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  16. Paperback Rocker

    Paperback Rocker Nitro-mancer Strat-Talk Supporter

    Sep 18, 2014
    Victoria TX
    If a song can be said to be in E minor, then it can be said to be in E Aeolian. If a song is in G major we can say it is G Ionian. But we can only use this naming style for the major and relative minor? Hmmm.

    If a song can have a Hungarian minor progression, a song can have a Mixolydian progression, too. As I argued in the other thread, there is more than one way to notate these things.
     

  17. suncrush

    suncrush Senior Stratmaster

    Mar 25, 2014
    Pittsburgh
    I'm curious, then, what you'd do about an improv solo over Am-Bm-D-Am.

    Or, for that matter, if you saw a 2-flat key signature that was Ab and Db, not Bb and Eb
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2017

  18. fezz parka

    fezz parka The Wiggler of Sticks Strat-Talk Supporter

    I'd play the changes off the triads or arpeggios. Its the way I was taught. I learned to play pre Jamie Aebersold modal chord/scale. That means arpeggio, triads and chord tones. The rest is sauce for the goose. Meaning that's what's right for me may not be right for you.

    I look at modes as a way to harmonize, not as the basis for what I play. I use chord tones, major pent, minor pent, diatonic major and minor. Chromatic for outside stuff.

    Let's agree to disagree. It won't be the first time. You have your approach, I have mine.

    I wouldn't refer to it as Aeolian or Ionian. I'd refer to it as minor or major. If we're talking about using C Ionian mode over let's say Am (A-C-E where you could use A Aeolian, C Ionian, or E Phrygian 6-1-3) , then I'd refer to it by its mode. Key sigs are minor and major in my world. Modes are used to describe the 7 degrees based off the major scale.

    David spelled this all out better than I could in the other thread. He kinda slammed the lid on it. Read it again.

    Like Kelly said in the other thread, call it whatever you want. Just don't expect me to call it that or be in agreement with you on it. Because...I won't, and I don't. :D
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2017
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  19. simoncroft

    simoncroft Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    61
    May 30, 2013
    SE England
    I have a question, please. Is there a working method for writing counterpoint arrangements?

    Although I can achieve quite a lot of contrary motion in arrangements, and I hope my brass and string parts sound reasonably authentic, 'counterpoint' remains a mystery. If I see scores by JS Bach, I can see how the same motifs repeat across the parts, but I've never really understood how he did it.

    Is there a formula or method?

    If the answer is "you should have gone to music college" I can take that on the chin. I didn't, so I know there are massive gaps in my knowledge as a result. It may be that I'm asking a question that requires a lifetime of study to fully understand. In general, learning music is a journey, rather than a destination.
     
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  20. fezz parka

    fezz parka The Wiggler of Sticks Strat-Talk Supporter

    Read some Fux. :D

    My Dad used to say you had the cantus firmus , then contrary motion to the cantus firmus. It still kind of confuses me to this day a little but I get the concept. Begin and end on consonance. Harmonically interdependent while being rhythmically independent. Duh. LOL

    I wish my Dad was around. It would have been cool to discuss this stuff with him with a mature mind, instead of the 11 year old that sat and listened patiently but also utterly clueless.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2017
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