OCD pedal

Discussion in 'The Effect effect' started by thomquietwolf, Jun 8, 2021.

  1. thomquietwolf

    thomquietwolf Dr. Stratster Silver Member

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    This morning I was trying to figure the new fault in my OCD...
    So went to Youtube...
    Came upon a Marty Schwartz OCD Vid
    At one point he expresses...
    It is more Rock & Roll than Blues....
    Which brings me to a question I've been asking for 14 years...
    I've asked over & over & over....
    And all I get are
    Cutsie Smarty pants answere...

    So

    Technically...
    Structurally...
    What is & are

    BLUES

    Perhaps

    I should just direct this to
    @fezz parka
    Or
    @Electgumbo
    Or
    @simoncroft
     
  2. Electgumbo

    Electgumbo Not Of This Earth

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    @thomquietwolf

    The Blues is a good woman or man feeling bad. This is a broad answer.

    Technically
    It normally consist of a 1, 4 , 5 or 1, 6,4, 5 chord progressions. It can be Major or Minor or have a #5. You asked for technical so if you don’t know what any of that stuff is well you asked for it. Oh it also often uses the dominant 7 not to be confused with the Major 7! Are you with me so far?

    Structurally
    Ok like I said in the first part the chords are normally 1,4 and 5 but heck it can be just a 1…. The master of one chord blues John Lee Hooker (Boogie Chillin)… on up to swinging stuff like T-Bone Walker or Louis Jordan and BB King.

    What is or the Blues

    Brah if you don’t know it when you hear it I can’t help you. I can type some big long dissertation about what the blues is and where it comes from but you a big boy and can look all that up. For the most part Rock&Roll is blues but faster and louder…. that’s all it is…
     
  3. bluejazzoid

    bluejazzoid Strats Amore Silver Member

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    Tip of the hat from ole blue eyes for the bonus unintended 'broad' reference!

    upload_2021-6-8_17-5-47.png

    :p
     
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  4. fezz parka

    fezz parka fezz parka

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    I'm So Lonesome I Could Cry.

    Is the Blues.

    Moonlight Sonata.

    Is the Blues.

    The Blues is a feeling.
     
  5. Driftwood

    Driftwood Strat-Talker

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    Blues is all I play professionally.

    And it is a feeling.

    But if you are playing rolling stones tunes or other rock music, you ain't playing blues.

    There is blues-rock and "bluesy" music, but it's not blues. But there is rocking-blues, it IS blues.

    Some rock guys, some blues-rock guys, could've been bluesmen, but they decided to focus on other types of music, so they are blues capable, but not bluesmen.

    Now someone will say I'm wrong.

    The blues is "I don't care what you think, this is my feeling for it."

    Understandable mostly only to those who are living and playing it TBH.
     
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  6. soulman969

    soulman969 Senior Stratmaster

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    I tend to agree with the thinking that "feel" has a lot to do with it but I'd also attach another word....."attitude".

    IMHO blue and rock each have their own very distinctive "attitude" that tends to separate them from one another.

    As musician I believe it's important to understand this going in because it will impact how you approach one genre vs the other.

    For instance, my sense of how I'd devise a bass line playing in a blues jam is much different than how I'd devise a similar bass line playing in a rock jam even though the chord progressions are identical. There's a "feel" and "attitude" for blues and a different "feel" and "attitude" for rock or even blues rock.

    JMHO obviously based on how I approach each one.
     
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  7. thomquietwolf

    thomquietwolf Dr. Stratster Silver Member

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    Sorry I asked
     
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  8. Deebs3

    Deebs3 Senior Stratmaster

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    Watch the movie "Crossroads" (not the Britney Spears one), it explains everything about the blues, oh and The Blues Brothers, any other good blues movies?
     
  9. soulman969

    soulman969 Senior Stratmaster

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    Oops....:oops:

    Too much information.
     
  10. soulman969

    soulman969 Senior Stratmaster

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    You of all people should have known better.

    Ask a bunch of players what time it is and they'll tell you how the watch was invented along with a brief history of the sundial. :D
     
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  11. BlurgyWurgyWibble

    BlurgyWurgyWibble Strat-O-Master

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    I wouldn't ask Marty Schwartz .. :D
    FWIW the only version of the OCD I like is the 1.7 and that can do anything from boost to metal zone.

    I've never sought the blues tone from a pedal. For me the definitive blues tone is an amp set hot, a guitar plugged straight in and a volume and tone knob actively deployed.
    Personally I'd say my definitive reference (electric) blues tone is Peter Green.. pickups with mismatched coils and microphonic af, a dimed fender, tons of reverb, judicious use of out of phase and TEXTURE. The slow, slow quick and the softly-softly: loud. Its about conveying emotion. For many SRV style "here's my balls (for 2 hrs), what do you think of them?" is blues and I couldn't ever really see the appeal. Subtle as a brick and coke'd up to the eyeballs. He never really said anything except "I am high" to me. Listening to people comparing him to Hendrix was pretty much a head scratcher for me. I guess guys like Green were adapting the older tradition of acoustic blues playing and that to me is closer to "real" blues than howling in to a mic with a tube screamer on "100% transistor".

    Guys like SRV (I hate to pick on him exclusively) never had anything to say. Were they happy? Sad? Love sick? Heartbroken? In lust? Bitter? Optimistic? Depressed? What did he ever actually say musically?

    The blues is saying something. If it ain't speaking truth, it ain't blues. It doesn't really matter if its a guitar or a skiffle board doing the talking.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2021
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  12. cranky

    cranky Senior Stratmaster

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    I think you've gotten some good answers.

    I'm down with a lot of what's been said already -- especially the feeling part.

    But I think of it a couple ways. First, blues can be rock, but rock can't be blues. Kinda like how a square is by definition a rectangle, but a rectangle ain't a square.

    Most important, though, is the musicology to it. You can't take blues out of the context of the "hybridity" or "double consciousness" experience (see WEB DuBois) of being black in America, a land that black folk have built up whilst being reminded time and again that they'd never be real Americans. That experience is integral to the feeling of blues in the original context and to the perceived "atonality" of the blues scale/notes mapped onto the accepted "western" scale -- in other words, a hybrid scale. This is the musical structure of the blues -- flattened thirds, flattened fifths, sevenths and ninths, all the "wrong notes" (similar to jazz), all within a different standard scale. Those two scales require each other, they are co-requisites, because atonal always implies tonal.

    Also similar to jazz, structurally, the blues and its feeling demand improvisation. The structure from the first to last measure of a song is general, not specific, encouraging expression of feeling through improvisation along the way.

    And, musicologically, I don't think you can properly appreciate where and how rock begins to deviate from blues without understanding a guy like Sam Philips when he literally said he wanted to sell some records by putting a white face on that black sound (his words, not mine). Enter Elvis. It's "the blues" without tension, musically and socially. It's pleasant and marketable. It's not the blues.

    Obviously some rock artists since those days have doubled back on this and have infused tension into their work. But even with some "unexpected" chords or notes here and there, the structure is often more rigid and improvisation is de-emphasized. There's some homage to the blues, but it isn't the blues.

    Idk what Schwartz was talking about. Does a pedal separate rock from blues?
     
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  13. fezz parka

    fezz parka fezz parka

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    Vernon Reid plays the blues. Think about that. :D
     
  14. Otisblove

    Otisblove Senior Stratmaster Silver Member

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    I remember when I was 25 thinking “I don’t want to play the blues because I don’t want to be in a place personally (spiritually and/or emotionally) where I HAVE to play the blues. I’d rather be happy.”
     
  15. PonyB

    PonyB Strat-Talker

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    If somebody asks you to play a Blues, it's usually a I-IV-V or the longer form Jazz Blues.
     
  16. fezz parka

    fezz parka fezz parka

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    Gary Moore's Still Got The Blues is a circle progression. Not just I/IV/V.
     
  17. fattboyzz

    fattboyzz Senior Stratmaster

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    The blues is ...

    Mmmmmm hhhhmmmmm



    Ooooh yeeeeaahhh



    Ebrythang goan be alrite di mooooaaaninnn



    Play it how it feels like ya mean it an guitar faces cant be stopped ;)
     
  18. henderman

    henderman Dr. Stratster

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    you know how real country music is a story about life - my truck, my dog , my girl , my beer...

    well blues originated as the black man's version , the songs are about life's events and as you know many can give you "the blues"
     
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  19. Jimi Lightning

    Jimi Lightning Most Honored Senior Member

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    No need IMHO to be sorry.
    It was a good question that like many has too many answers. :)
    If the thread runs your definitive answer could be in one of the posts. Several have addressed it structurally etc…
    So I’m gonna ramble now….

    For me the baseline of what blues are are artists like”Lighting Hopkins” etc.. The old and real Country Blues about life in a time long gone. Don’t let the Country part fool you as it mostly being played on an acoustic.

    A good basic blues riff on a Cigar box Guitar in open G etc..IMHO nothing sounds quite like it and for lack of a better term, it just sounds right. A little dirt on the sound or not. I run mine thru a converted boombox. Gritty and dirty. (Its an easy conversion)
    I’m not a CBG bandwagon jumper as Ive been building them for years and they take me to where the blues spirit lives for me. YMMV :)
     
  20. Chont

    Chont Most Honored Senior Member

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    I think its more of a blues jazz pedal ... or maybe jazz blues
     
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