Partscasters, the good, bad and ugly

Intune

Senior Stratmaster
Jan 14, 2021
4,896
Edmonton, Alberta
I'd call that a smart move. If you want a specific off the shelf Fender and you can get it in two pieces, bolt together, set it up and save 25%, why wouldn't you.
Used American Ultras go for about $1500 in the UK. If there was one for sale advertised as you have built it for about $500 less, I would not be turning my nose up at it.

Which becomes the issue with partscasters using all genuine parts. Sure you can save a few dollars and build your own. Many would still consider the pieced together AO 50’s strat as a partscaster. Sure you saved some money.

Now the issue is when it’s out of your hands and into someone else’s. Say the AO’s are hard to come by 10 years from now. This is magically up for sale by it’s now 3rd owner as 100% original. Someone pays big money for it and turns out it was bought in parts from stratosphere. Who cares right, it’s all the same? Well not really because that person could have paid the same price for a actual legit numbers matching one. Not a questionable one. This matters to lots and lots of people.

So back to my original question about all fender parts partscasters actually being worse to the general public then a fake decal. The fake decal strat has absolutely no serial numbers to look up and fool anyone. This AO does and will fool more than one person.

There’s literally 3 threads going right now asking if something is legit because of a serial number on a neck. So how this all fender parts any better then a fake decal as far as fooling someone, it’s actually worse.

Fake decal = fake
All fender parts = fake

That’s pretty much how I see it but that’s just my opinion.
 

wooders

Senior Stratmaster
Nov 19, 2021
1,185
Kent
Which becomes the issue with partscasters using all genuine parts. Sure you can save a few dollars and build your own. Many would still consider the pieced together AO 50’s strat as a partscaster. Sure you saved some money.

Now the issue is when it’s out of your hands and into someone else’s. Say the AO’s are hard to come by 10 years from now. This is magically up for sale by it’s now 3rd owner as 100% original. Someone pays big money for it and turns out it was bought in parts from stratosphere. Who cares right, it’s all the same? Well not really because that person could have paid the same price for a actual legit numbers matching one. Not a questionable one. This matters to lots and lots of people.

So back to my original question about all fender parts partscasters actually being worse to the general public then a fake decal. The fake decal strat has absolutely no serial numbers to look up and fool anyone. This AO does and will fool more than one person.

There’s literally 3 threads going right now asking if something is legit because of a serial number on a neck. So how this all fender parts any better then a fake decal as far as fooling someone, it’s actually worse.

Fake decal = fake
All fender parts = fake

That’s pretty much how I see it but that’s just my opinion.
Seems your issue is being fooled into believing something is not what it is advertised as. This is a whole different thing to putting together a few parts, in my eyes.
No one wants to see someone ripped off, intentionally, or otherwise. It doesn't make someone a counterfeiter because they build something they like. Two different sets of morals here.
I'm not personally precious about putting together genuine parts from, let's say, a CV50s and calling it a CV50.
I suppose it's like denting your car door. You get a new door, paint it a matching colour and fit it to your car. You use all genuine parts. When you come to trade it in/sell it, are you selling a fake?
 

Intune

Senior Stratmaster
Jan 14, 2021
4,896
Edmonton, Alberta
Seems your issue is being fooled into believing something is not what it is advertised as. This is a whole different thing to putting together a few parts, in my eyes.
No one wants to see someone ripped off, intentionally, or otherwise. It doesn't make someone a counterfeiter because they build something they like. Two different sets of morals here.
I'm not personally precious about putting together genuine parts from, let's say, a CV50s and calling it a CV50.
I suppose it's like denting your car door. You get a new door, paint it a matching colour and fit it to your car. You use all genuine parts. When you come to trade it in/sell it, are you selling a fake?

Me personally I know what I’m looking at when it comes to purchasing any guitar. If I don’t I do lots of research before I put any money on the table. That’s not really what I’m saying.

My point is I put fake decals on Allparts necks. That’s considered the devils work, I’m a looser, scammer, a horrible person.

Someone else can build a genuine fender partscaster(just for themselves, not being sold as genuine) yet it ends up on here as genuine or for sale locally. Trying to be passed off as genuine. So why am I the scammer? There’s no difference between the two, both fakes. Ones less fake?

Anyway I don’t care what anyone does with their guitars, education is key when spending money on a guitar. Lots of genuine fakes out there.

Oh and the car reference. A damaged door that’s been replaced is like replacing the bridge for a upgrade.

A partscaster would be considered a salvage title. You better disclose that up front.
 

somebodyelseuk

Strat-O-Master
Jan 29, 2022
692
Birmingham UK
Using the logo without written permission from Fender is technically trademark infringement, I think, so you're breaking the law the second you print one off/sell one/buy one, before you even stick it on the head.
The rest of it... it depends what you're trying to 'say'. Building a 'Strat' from genuine Fender parts doesn't mean it will be as good as a guitar put together at Fender. Some people out there can't even string a guitar properly, so I wouldn't want a 'all genuine Fender parts' o'caster screwed together by them.

The car analogy doesn't work. In most of the civilised world, no matter how old the car is, it has to pass certain safety standards to be allowed on public roads, so parts inevitably have to be replaced, eg. there is a 'use by date' on tyres in the UK, these days - you are not allowed to use tyres over a certain age, no matter what their condition, on public roads in the UK.
 

Intune

Senior Stratmaster
Jan 14, 2021
4,896
Edmonton, Alberta
Using the logo without written permission from Fender is technically trademark infringement, I think, so you're breaking the law the second you print one off/sell one/buy one, before you even stick it on the head.
The rest of it... it depends what you're trying to 'say'. Building a 'Strat' from genuine Fender parts doesn't mean it will be as good as a guitar put together at Fender. Some people out there can't even string a guitar properly, so I wouldn't want a 'all genuine Fender parts' o'caster screwed together by them.

The car analogy doesn't work. In most of the civilised world, no matter how old the car is, it has to pass certain safety standards to be allowed on public roads, so parts inevitably have to be replaced, eg. there is a 'use by date' on tyres in the UK, these days - you are not allowed to use tyres over a certain age, no matter what their condition, on public roads in the UK.

No I know it’s not legal to put a fender decal on a aftermarket neck. That’s kind of what I’m asking. How is that illegal or not morally correct but selling a MIM strat neck on a squier body okay? It’s not, yes they’re a fender parts but it’s still going to fool someone a lot easier.

Like I said, I’m not the police and I don’t judge anyone for what they do with their guitars. Take the moral high ground and saying “I only use genuine fender parts” doesn’t give anyone a pass when it eventually lands in someone’s and then on here asking if it’s legit.
 

SonOfLerome

Senior Stratmaster
May 25, 2020
1,288
Mandalore
No I know it’s not legal to put a fender decal on a aftermarket neck. That’s kind of what I’m asking. How is that illegal or not morally correct but selling a MIM strat neck on a squier body okay? It’s not, yes they’re a fender parts but it’s still going to fool someone a lot easier.

Like I said, I’m not the police and I don’t judge anyone for what they do with their guitars. Take the moral high ground and saying “I only use genuine fender parts” doesn’t give anyone a pass when it eventually lands in someone’s and then on here asking if it’s legit.
I think it's (putting an OEM fender neck on a different body) not illegal because this a pretty unique set of circumstances that the law might not necessarily have considered when written. Not to mention I don't think Leo ever thought it would be an issue if parts were replaced, and probably didn't consider fakes.

The question of if it's morally right is VERY different imo, because morals will vary widely depending on the person and never align perfectly with law. To me, it's up to the buyer to fully inspect if something is amiss (in the case that the seller doesn't present the facts outright).

You'd never see this issue if someone were to replace an engine on a car with a different brand, for example(Because most people would know to look) . The attitude towards guitars is just different for whatever reason... Perhaps because the average person doesn't realize necks and bodies are often swapped out whereas they might be more familiar with car modifications? Could also be the case that laws are more strict with the purchase of cars, IDRK.
 
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Intune

Senior Stratmaster
Jan 14, 2021
4,896
Edmonton, Alberta
I think it's (putting an OEM fender neck on a different body) not illegal because this a pretty unique set of circumstances that the law might not necessarily have considered when written. Not to mention I don't think Leo ever thought it would be an issue if parts were replaced, and probably didn't consider fakes.

The question of if it's morally right is VERY different imo, because morals will vary widely depending on the person and never align perfectly with law. To me, it's up to the buyer to fully inspect if something is amiss (in the case that the seller doesn't present the facts outright).

You'd never see this issue if someone were to replace an engine on a car with a different brand, for example(Because most people would know to look) . The attitude towards guitars is just different for whatever reason... Perhaps because the average person doesn't realize necks and bodies are often swapped out whereas they might be more familiar with car modifications? Could also be the case that laws are more strict with the purchase of cars, IDRK.

Yes that’s true. I guess it wouldn’t be illegal to put fender parts together. It’s just with the recent threads and this exact situation someone always gets burned either the first buyer or the third. It just got me thinking how this is any different then something with a fake decal and no serial numbers. One is socially excepted and the other is fraud.

Just a huge grey area to me. Lots more people getting burned with the socially excepted all fender partscasters.
 

Guy Incognito

Senior Stratmaster
May 14, 2019
4,587
Here and now
The Partscaster "Morals" issue belongs not to the fact a Partscaster exists but to whoever doesn't disclose that fact.

I turn all my Fenders into Partscasters. Most of Fender parts and some with non Fender parts. If I wanted a guitar that was the same as everyone else's I'd just go to the store and buy a boring (IMO) guitar. The Partscasters I put together don't exist in non Partscaster form. When I sell them I'm clear as to what I'm selling. What happens after that is not my responsibility as I'm not responsible for other people's actions.

When a person buys a used guitar they are buying a guitar with a history of one kind or another.
 

geogoetz

Strat-Talk Member
Dec 9, 2021
22
New York
Which becomes the issue with partscasters using all genuine parts. Sure you can save a few dollars and build your own. Many would still consider the pieced together AO 50’s strat as a partscaster. Sure you saved some money.

Now the issue is when it’s out of your hands and into someone else’s. Say the AO’s are hard to come by 10 years from now. This is magically up for sale by it’s now 3rd owner as 100% original. Someone pays big money for it and turns out it was bought in parts from stratosphere. Who cares right, it’s all the same? Well not really because that person could have paid the same price for a actual legit numbers matching one. Not a questionable one. This matters to lots and lots of people.

So back to my original question about all fender parts partscasters actually being worse to the general public then a fake decal. The fake decal strat has absolutely no serial numbers to look up and fool anyone. This AO does and will fool more than one person.

There’s literally 3 threads going right now asking if something is legit because of a serial number on a neck. So how this all fender parts any better then a fake decal as far as fooling someone, it’s actually worse.

Fake decal = fake
All fender parts = fake

That’s pretty much how I see it but that’s just my opinion.
Don't know if this was already posted elsewhere but I'm curious what Fender thinks of partscasters. I bet it's a win-win for them as their parts probably get the most traffic. Wouldn't surprise me if they make a small fortune on necks and neck licensing alone.
 

Intune

Senior Stratmaster
Jan 14, 2021
4,896
Edmonton, Alberta
Again I have no issues with anyone doing whatever they want to their guitars. Full disclosure or not, it’s up to the buyer to educate themselves before buying anything, especially used. I swap parts around on my guitars all the time. I don’t buy anything off the rack.

I only started this thread because of another thread that was about a recent build. A pic of a aftermarket neck and a fender decal. I know and agree with the rules, that’s not allowed.

The member was being asked repeatedly “is that a fender neck”. Obviously we know why. Then I thought, what if it was? What if it was a fender neck on that Guitar Mill body. What difference would it make? Does it make it any less counterfeit if it did have a fender neck? If ever sold someone could still get fooled. Fake or real decal.

Then within a few days there was several threads asking for help identifying a newly purchased guitars. They were all real fender partscasters with necks and bodies from different eras. So that’s why I’m pointing out that neither of those situations(fake or real parts) is great in the long run.

Don't know if this was already posted elsewhere but I'm curious what Fender thinks of partscasters. I bet it's a win-win for them as their parts probably get the most traffic. Wouldn't surprise me if they make a small fortune on necks and neck licensing alone.

Stratosphere used to sell CS parts with the COA and neck plates. They don’t anymore. Why would that be? Maybe because all fender partscasters with legit serial numbers are fooling lots of people. You used to be able to piece together your own CS with the matching serial neck plate and COA attached to a loaded body. Then go buy the neck with a different serial and you got yourself a partscaster custom shop. 3 owners later it’s being passed around as factory original. So I’m sure that’s why they stopped doing it.
 

peterlaca

Strat-Talk Member
Sep 1, 2021
46
Los Angeles
Leo designed the strat to have interchangable parts. The purist "factory" vs "partscaster" argument is really academic. People trying to sell a partscaster as a factory original is a completely separate issue....that's just fraud and fraud can be found in all kinds of products. If you want to be somewhat more assured of a factory original...then buy a Gibson set neck. Otherwise, educate yourself on how to determine authenticity of Fender guitars and stop trying to be the Fender Police.
 

wooders

Senior Stratmaster
Nov 19, 2021
1,185
Kent
Me personally I know what I’m looking at when it comes to purchasing any guitar. If I don’t I do lots of research before I put any money on the table. That’s not really what I’m saying.

My point is I put fake decals on Allparts necks. That’s considered the devils work, I’m a looser, scammer, a horrible person.

Someone else can build a genuine fender partscaster(just for themselves, not being sold as genuine) yet it ends up on here as genuine or for sale locally. Trying to be passed off as genuine. So why am I the scammer? There’s no difference between the two, both fakes. Ones less fake?

Anyway I don’t care what anyone does with their guitars, education is key when spending money on a guitar. Lots of genuine fakes out there.

Oh and the car reference. A damaged door that’s been replaced is like replacing the bridge for a upgrade.

A partscaster would be considered a salvage title. You better disclose that up front.
I'm a little less 'aware' than some of the gurus here, but can spot a few things off the bat. I guess I feel a little more comfortable that if my own research doesn't fulfill enough confidence in a purchase, I know where to ask, BEFORE handing over any cash. I guess that could be a comfort that someone unawares does not have.
 

ThreeChordWonder

Senior Stratmaster
Dec 2, 2020
3,749
Cypress TX
If you build it as a partscaster then decide to sell it, advertising it as such so that the buyer is fully aware, thats fine in my book.

If you're selling a guitar an accident force you to change the neck on, and you advertise it as such, that's fair enough in my book.

If you just change a faulty switch or pot, like for like, I don't feel a need to advertise the fact unless it's a genuine vintage 1950s or such.

What I would object to is someone selling an all Fender partscaster, let alone a fake, as the real deal.
 

Butcher of Strats

Senior Stratmaster
Feb 28, 2022
1,559
Maine
Regarding the actual guitars, applying a counterfeit Fender decal to a non Fender neck or even a "Fender licensed" neck is fraud, is illegal, and is morally vacant. Not attacking folks, but those are actual facts, and fraud is taking action without any moral consideration. Sort of like looting stores in a riot because "everybody else is doing it".
See my new Fender brand guitar?
Only $300 in parts from MIC GFS!
You should shop at GFS too!
Commonly a gear chat site will remove posts linked to sale of counterfeit Fender decals. Because it promotes stealing from Fender. Fender owns their brand logo.

Every other parts combo is legal and not fraudulent in any way.

A seller may use fraudulent language, but every partscaster is real.
 

Intune

Senior Stratmaster
Jan 14, 2021
4,896
Edmonton, Alberta
Regarding the actual guitars, applying a counterfeit Fender decal to a non Fender neck or even a "Fender licensed" neck is fraud, is illegal, and is morally vacant. Not attacking folks, but those are actual facts, and fraud is taking action without any moral consideration. Sort of like looting stores in a riot because "everybody else is doing it".
See my new Fender brand guitar?
Only $300 in parts from MIC GFS!
You should shop at GFS too!
Commonly a gear chat site will remove posts linked to sale of counterfeit Fender decals. Because it promotes stealing from Fender. Fender owns their brand logo.

Every other parts combo is legal and not fraudulent in any way.

A seller may use fraudulent language, but every partscaster is real.

Tell that to anyone that buys a fender made up of parts and sold as a 62 AVRI. Yes it’s fraudulent on the seller to do that but every partscaster is real? A real what, guitar? It sure is. Is it a real 62 AVRI, that’s up to the buyer.

Just lots of these real partscasters being posted up here recently. That’s okay to post links of those because they’re real. That’s the odd part about it.
 

YohanTheMan

Strat-O-Master
Sep 3, 2020
893
Denmark
Well in 1978 David Gilmour had a customized Grover Jackson/Charvel neck with a Fender decal fitted onto his legendary Black Strat, but I guess he can get away with that sort of horrible, fraudulent behaviour, because he used to be in a "popular" band (although not as nearly as popular and appealing as Rush). I just can't help thinking about poor Jim Isray. He spent $4 million on a darn partscaster. The only thing that keeps me from not totally falling apart, is that Gilmour finally came to his senses and had a Fender 57 replacement neck replace the evil fraud neck. So that's only half as bad...or is it twice as bad?!?!

Anyway, that's a little slice of the story of arguably the greatest partscaster ever put together.
 
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