Join Strat-Talk Today

Please Help Identify!

Discussion in 'Other Guitar Discussion' started by jcasey, Nov 6, 2019.

  1. jcasey

    jcasey New Member!

    Age:
    31
    Messages:
    5
    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2019
    Location:
    San Diego
    Hey All,

    I found a strat I am going to buy tomorrow off Craigslist. We are meeting in a public safe place.

    The seller claims it's a 1984 from her father, but doesn't know much else. I'd prefer to get some more info before I go get it, as it's going to be a 2hr round trip drive to pick it up. I am waiting on more clear photos so I can identify it via the serial number, but figured the community might know so more about it.

    The pickups look similar to EMGs? Or maybe a closed top? Also there looks to be a Floyd Rose style locking nut? And one the right side of the pick guard it almost looks like there's a kill switch or something mounted.


    Thank you in advance!
     

    Attached Files:

    • 4.jpg
      4.jpg
      File size:
      45.3 KB
      Views:
      54
    NeverPracticing likes this.
  2. albala

    albala Most Honored Senior Member Strat-Talk Supporter

    Messages:
    8,322
    Joined:
    May 10, 2012
    Location:
    stamford, CT
    That's a Strat Plus and looks to be in original condition

    It probably has an E4 serial which people confuse for '84.

    It's probably an '86 or '87

    It has a Wilkinson roller nut. I can't tell if it's a 1st or 2nd gen roller nut

    The pickups appear to be the original Lace Sensors

    Also it's one of the more rare colors

    I would snatch it up for the right price, but I collect Strat Pluses

    I think they're among the best guitars Fender ever made.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2019
    CB91710 and jcasey like this.
  3. jcasey

    jcasey New Member!

    Age:
    31
    Messages:
    5
    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2019
    Location:
    San Diego

    Thank you for responding, I am doing my homework now! The seller is letting it go for $500. Does that seem reasonable?
     
  4. albala

    albala Most Honored Senior Member Strat-Talk Supporter

    Messages:
    8,322
    Joined:
    May 10, 2012
    Location:
    stamford, CT
    It's a great deal if it is an original Strat Plus.

    get us some better pics so we can verify it before you spend any money
     
    jcasey likes this.
  5. John C

    John C Most Honored Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,344
    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2012
    Location:
    Kansas City
    Agreed - killer price if it's the real deal. The photo isn't that great but it looks to me like the 2nd generation Wilkinson nut. From what research I can find (used to chat with Xhefri on the old FMIC forum about this) the first generation (or "split") Wilkinson was only used in 1987, and changed over the 2nd version right around the end of the year.
     
    jcasey likes this.
  6. jcasey

    jcasey New Member!

    Age:
    31
    Messages:
    5
    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2019
    Location:
    San Diego
    Thank you both so much for the help! As soon as I get more pics I will definitely share! :)
     
  7. YALCaster

    YALCaster Strat-O-Master

    Age:
    21
    Messages:
    719
    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2017
    Location:
    Tulsa
    I don’t think I can recall ever seeing a Strat plus for under $800-$1000, you sir are very lucky
     
    NeverPracticing and jcasey like this.
  8. 3bolt79

    3bolt79 Senior Stratmaster

    Messages:
    3,864
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Location:
    The Woodshed
    Smokin deal if it’s real. I’d snap it up at that price.
     
    jcasey likes this.
  9. jcasey

    jcasey New Member!

    Age:
    31
    Messages:
    5
    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2019
    Location:
    San Diego
    Hey all, got the guitar, the serial number is E452784

    From dating, and the model type, its looks to be a 1987-1988 model, and it is the rare Fiesta Red! Overall it's in about 6/10 condition, so I'm going to carefully clean it up, restring and all that. One really cool thing, is it has the BOB body style. Not sure if the BOB was still being produced in 88'? If I remember correctly I think the BOB was 1986-1987. Also @John C was correct, the nut is second generation. So from deductive reasoning, I'm thinking this is an 87'.

    I will get some photos up once it's ready! And thank you all again so much for the help! :)
     
  10. albala

    albala Most Honored Senior Member Strat-Talk Supporter

    Messages:
    8,322
    Joined:
    May 10, 2012
    Location:
    stamford, CT
    what's BOB?
     
  11. TomH8

    TomH8 Senior Stratmaster

    Messages:
    1,125
    Joined:
    May 1, 2014
    Location:
    USA
    I think the Bob body style is a middle aged man dad bod, but I could be wrong :thumbd:
     
    albala likes this.
  12. jcasey

    jcasey New Member!

    Age:
    31
    Messages:
    5
    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2019
    Location:
    San Diego
    This is cut and copy from Xhefri


    The Mysterious “Bob” Stratocaster Bodies of 1987!

    From late 1986 into the first month of 1988 (i.e., 1987) there was what later would become a mysterious and controversial “Bob” body that appeared on the “new” American Standard and a few Stratocaster Plus guitars. What did these short-lived bodies look like? And where did they come from? And what happened to them?

    Some of you have read on my website that there were some leftover Fullerton bodies used on some guitars that first came out of the new Fender Plant in Corona, California, after the CBS buyout by Bill Schultz and investors. This same information is also shared on several other websites and guitar forums. Here is why some have speculated at this — when the new American Standard Strat came out in late 1986, the bodies had contours that were considerably rounder than the American Standard Strats of 1988 until today.

    Somehow, someone surmised that these short-lived bodies had to be leftovers from the old Fender Fullerton plant. I found out this was not the case. John Page, George Blanda, and Rob Schwarz were all working for Fender right at the start of the new Corona plant. John and George were hired by Fender, along with Mike Stevens, to start a Custom Shop division at Fender. These men were the ones responsible for the changes on the contours of the bodies as well as the designs. I communicated with all three to get the facts of what happened back in these “wild and woolly days” at Fender.

    CBS Era Bodies.

    When I asked John Page about leftover bodies from the old Fullerton plant he stated, “There were absolutely no American Standard or Plus bodies that were made at the Fullerton plant! These guitars were not developed until after we were gone from there for over a year. The only bodies that MAY have been leftover would have been some of the vintage reissues. The American Standard wasn't designed until after we had already left Fullerton. I had left Fender for 11 months in 1986, and we left Fullerton the year before that.”

    So what were these early bodies one finds on the first American Standards and a few early Strat Plus Stratocasters? And how did they come into being? Well, before we answer that, let’s take a look at how Strat bodies were shaped in the early 1980s, while Fender was still under CBS control. Then let’s take a look at what happened after the Fullerton plant was closed down and production moved to the Corona plant after the CBS buyout.

    Rob Schwarz, a 34+ year employee at Fender told me this story: “I started at CBS Fender Oct 17, 1980, in the woodshop — on the ‘body-line.’ I was on that line for about a year where, yep, we traced the contours on the bodies with a pressboard jig, and then cut the contours on a bandsaw. The Union ‘standard’ per hour was 150 bodies.

    “We would receive the bodies about 300 at a time, I recall, on a rolling table about knee high and maybe 3 ft long. After completing the 300 on the band saw, we would bring them over to a large ‘edge sander’ which was about 10-12 ft long. I think that Union standard for the sander was 300 per hour (thus one table w/3 stacks of 100). It’s a bit difficult to cut 150 bodies an hour, so some workers would cut a ‘lesser’ contour and sand more off on the edge sander. Since, in 1980 it was pretty easy to pass inconsistency through the inspectors, the contours varied greatly. From barely a contour, to a deep contour, depending entirely on the operator.

    “I can tell you that the guitar’s shapes and weights were very inconsistent until Bill Schultz, Dan Smith, Bashar Darcazallie, and others, began their changes in 1982. The only ‘new machine’ related thing I remember is the neck router, that cut 6 at a time, that came in while I was still on the ‘body-line.’ I’m uncertain if any other machines were updated in the remaining 4 years, but I suspect not. When I began at Fender, the bodies were being roughly cut out, 3 at a time, in the NC router room. After that, the bodies came to the ‘body-line’ where several procedures were performed — rounding the edges, sanding machines, contour cutting and sanding, and the drilling of all the holes needed.”

    So what Rob is pointing out, the bodies were inconsistently shaped back in the last few years of CBS, because they were cut and sanded by hand! As you might remember, Bill Schultz and Dan Smith were trying to bring CBS’s quality control up to a higher standard, as things faltered under CBS’s ownership. As mechanisms were put into place, contours started being more consistent.

    CBS Buyout and the New American Standard Strat

    In 1986, George Blanda was hired to try to get Fender’s Custom Shop up and running. Since that did not happen right away, his first gig consisted of working with Rob Schwarz, inspecting the Japanese Fender imports that were coming in, while the Corona plant was trying to get up to speed with their production. As the Custom Shop started to become a reality, he was given the title, “Senior Design Engineer.” He was responsible for the design of the “new” American Standard Strats. George explained where some of the features of that design came from:

    “There were two new lines introduced in 1982 (before I was hired), called ‘Standard’ and ‘Elite,’ which were newly designed from the ground up. Several features of the ‘new’ American Standard came from these, in particular the TBX tone control; the Bi-Flex truss rod, the pickups with reverse middle polarity and the EZ Glider string trees. Both of these models had a slightly modified Stratocaster shape compared to Vintage. On the American Standard we went back to the Vintage perimeter shape which we had at the time. John Page is correct that no American Standard bodies were ever made at CBS Fender.

    “Regarding the contours, the CBS era Vintage Reissue Strats and ‘Standard and Elite’ Strats had the same body contours. These had a very round and even profile when viewed from the side. The top and back contour blended together along the side to make a continuous, even curve from front edge through the middle when the back contour turned back toward the bottom. This was by design and the A&B shaper that John Page describes was tooled up that way. When the first American Standards were built, starting in November/ December of 1986 (a few protos were done in summer of 1986), they were done exactly the same way. And yes, there were several ex-CBS employees who were used to making that shape, but it was actually intended to be that way.”

    So now we know where these “supposed” Fullerton bodies really originated! We have now renamed them “Bob” bodies, which I will explain in a moment. These bodies were used on the first “new” American Standard Strats and a few very early Strat Plus guitars. George clarified by saying, “These bodies used the CBS Fender contours identical to American Vintage Re-Issue Strats (AVRI), but with swimming pool route, 2-point tremolo and micro-tilt adjustor.”

    So if you have a Strat Plus with a “Bob” body, you have a rare first-run style that was changed early in 1988. Odd thing was, I have seen some of the newer Corona style bodies used in December of 1987, so there was a mix and match there for a while. Also date stamps on necks and bodies could vary in the production process, as well. But to find a Strat Plus with a “Bob” body is pretty rare, making it more collectable.

    Corona Bodies — Why Were they Changed?

    Most people that have a Strat Plus know the body has pretty flat side edges, making them look more blocky. John Page explained, “The contours on the bodies were cut on a large shaper, called the A&B Shaper. It cut a bevel in the front and the back for the contours, and then they were sanded. This is what I remember, early in the Custom Shop, Mike Stevens and I were asked to work with Yngwie Malmsteen to create a signature Strat. He was VERY specific about having the 60's ‘diamond’ contour on his body, so we worked with the factory and had the A&B Shaper templates changed. We all liked that contour better, and it helped us dial in the vintage product closer to the originals as well.”

    So the rounded CBS “Bob” bodies were changed due to the request from Yngwie Malmsteen, and the American Standard and Strat Plus guitars kept that shape all through the rest of the Strat Plus era, and is still with the American Standard Strats today.

    George Blanda remembers it this way: “Yngwie Malmsteen is the one responsible for getting the ‘diamond’ pattern back onto Stratocasters. Dan Smith and I took him one of the first production American Standards when we were creating his soon-to-be Signature Strat. Dan and I started this project, but it was turned over to John Page and Michael Stevens right as the Custom Shop started. The contour was the first thing Yngwie pointed out that he wanted fixed on his model. He made the point that we should fix this on all Strats, and we did. This involved modifying the A&B shaper patterns, which took some time, and we had to work through the stock of bodies that we had just made. (BTW, he liked the Am Std tremolo and used it on his Signature model for several years before going back to Vintage.)”

    I had never heard of a 1960s “diamond” pattern before, so George explained and even drew me a diagram: “The ‘diamond’ refers to a parallelogram-shaped flat area on the side view of the contour. This is the result of an offset between the front and back contours.” Once you look at the diagram and then hold up your Strat Plus or American Standard Strat on edge, you will immediately understand what he is talking about!

    George added, “The ’BOB’ bodies were the older, rounder, throwback to CBS Fender. The ‘diamond’ bodies are the flatter, squarer, ones still used today. The edge radius did eventually grow back to the vintage round style in the late 90s but the ‘diamond’ style contours remain.” And he also added this tidbit, “The square edges just kind of evolved in manufacturing (easier to make) and it was embraced by Marketing as an identifier for the line. The square-edged Jackson-style body radius was super hot at this time and it made the Am Std ‘hipper’.”

    OK, so where did the name “BOB” come from??? When I was corresponding with John Page, I asked him, “What in the heck should these bodies be called if they are not Fullerton bodies and they are not the newer American Standard bodies?? Lol!!” I even suggested, “Pre-Malmsteen-contoured-deluxe-resissue-hybrid.” John wasn’t impressed and answered, “As far as what to call them, I would just say they're ‘original run,’ or ‘early run.’ Or you could just call them Bob!” So BOB it is!

    Now I know people are going to ask, “What does ‘Bob’ stand for?” Well, I tried to be creative and came up with BOB = Before Other Body… but the truth is, BOB is just a name and nothing else!
     
  13. NeverPracticing

    NeverPracticing Strat-Talk Member

    Age:
    33
    Messages:
    49
    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2019
    Location:
    Seattle
    Buy the BLEEP out of this and report back with pics!!
     
  14. Bowmap

    Bowmap I nose a thang or two. Gold Member

    Messages:
    3,630
    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2017
    Location:
    In my tent.
    Nice tid bit to read @jcasey . Good way to start the day learning something new. By the way, Welcome to the forum and congrats on the nice find and acquisition.
     
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.