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Practical Music Workshop #8 - Jazzy Eights (Two Chords, Two Modes)

Discussion in 'Tab & Music Forum' started by dogletnoir, Aug 1, 2019.

  1. Omar

    Omar ✪✪ Miserable Old Curmudgeon ✪✪

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    Welcome back :) I’m glad to seeing monte. You belong here, my friend, no else where.
     
  2. Alan L Cole

    Alan L Cole Senior Stratmaster

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    Trippin'-the-Light-Fantastic cool. Welcome back Monte!
     
  3. dogletnoir

    dogletnoir WBLV Strat-Talk Supporter

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    Nice job, @duzie!
    You definitely were following the progression, and you had a cool theme going, too.
    So far, so good, man!
    :thumb:
    Just watch the F# against the Gmi7 in your final run...
    if it's intentional, no prob, but it's definitely a bit of a 'rub'.

    If these things help to isolate areas of our playing that need a bit more attention,
    then they are doing their job. That's why they are 'workshops', rather than 'jams', or
    even 'challenges'.
    i generally don't count bars; i just try to hear the changes in groups or sections, which is
    why i wrote it out the way i did in the first post. It might help to listen to the rhythm track
    a few times and mind the time stamps instead. The drum track also has some cues for when
    the sections change over.

    You're very welcome... thanks for joining in, and i'm looking forward to your next version!
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019
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  4. dogletnoir

    dogletnoir WBLV Strat-Talk Supporter

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    Welcome back, my friend!
    So glad that you could join us... and with a nice take too.
    i hear use of the chord tones, arpeggios, and modal material. Good stuff!!!
    The main thing we all have to watch out for in this one is hitting major 3rds &/or 7ths
    on top of minor 7th chords.
    That's where sticking to the suggested modes will really help the most, imo.
    Think of it as a 'hack'. :)
    Also, you know i like hearing you play the electric thangs, and i am a total delay addict myself.
    Stay on the electric for the next take, but maybe dial the delay back just a touch, ok?
    i'm so happy that you're doing this one; i was hoping that you'd find your way here!
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019
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  5. duzie

    duzie Senior Stratmaster

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    Much of what I end up recording is unintentional lol.
    I lost my place and tried to salvage what I had played up until then :D
    Without a doubt this is helpful :)
    I’m working on playing intentionally.
    That will come with more effort on my part !
     
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  6. montemerrick

    montemerrick you can't stay the fool Strat-Talk Supporter

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    i did another... after a few more practice runs... not any better i dont suppose, but i am trapped in a murakami detective story now.

    i'm sorry i don't have the capacity to comment on each of yours, but i will listen!

     
  7. Andrew Wasson

    Andrew Wasson Senior Stratmaster

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    Two chords they say, two modes they say. Should be easy, right? :confused:

    I'm still in the running but I just can't come up with something exciting for the solo I want to put in the middle of it. It's killing me to not listen to any of the submissions yet so I've got to get my butt in gear and finish it up.

    I ended up being distracted by the bass so I sequenced snare and bass drum so that I could nail the rhythm part and not follow the bass. There's a reason I've always played lead :rolleyes:

    Anyway, I kind of like the melodies I've come up with. I may redo the rhythm again because it clashes with a few phrases of my melodies. All I need to do now is come up with something interesting for the solo and I'm done. I'll be aiming for completion on Wednesday night.

    Thanks @dogletnoir for such a tremendous challenge!
     
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  8. Thrup'ny Bit

    Thrup'ny Bit Grand Master Curmudgeon Strat-Talk Supporter

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    I don't find listening to what other people do changes what I'm going to play, other than giving me hints on timing on awkward tunes. Perhaps I'm just set in my ways.
     
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  9. dogletnoir

    dogletnoir WBLV Strat-Talk Supporter

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    @montemerrick, there were a LOT of great ideas in this take, as well as the previous one... so many in fact that i had to lift a few.
    i hope you don't mind...
    Ocul 8s (inspired by mm)

    There are much worse places to be trapped in than a murakami detective story, too.
    :D
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019
  10. dogletnoir

    dogletnoir WBLV Strat-Talk Supporter

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    You're very welcome, @Andrew Wasson!
    Sometimes the simplest concepts are the hardest ones to execute well.
    That's part of what makes 'Kind Of Blue' such an amazing album... the musicians were all masters of their art,
    and they were able to take the basic elements that Miles provided them with and create something of rare elegance
    and timeless beauty.
    As for this workshop, i think we're all just hoping to come up with something that fits the brief and sounds good to us.
    Which, come to think of it, is pretty much what they were trying to do on the KOB sessions too...
    Looking forward to hearing your take!
    :)
     
  11. simoncroft

    simoncroft Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter

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    Wow. Every time I feel like I getting somewhere with this, you guys raise the bar! :D On the up side, I can now actually play the rhythm part I'd worked out on guitar. On the maybe not-so up side, progress on that solo is slow. Still, no one said it was going to be easy.

    Welcome back @montemerrick! :thumb::thumb::thumb: I can tell you have not been idle since we last met.
     
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  12. Raimonds

    Raimonds Senior Stratmaster

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    I am a few thousand miles away from my guitars and will be for a week or so :( listened to to the takes - they are great!
     
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  13. dogletnoir

    dogletnoir WBLV Strat-Talk Supporter

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    @montemerrick,
    i don't generally do this, but i transcribed your version.
    It was definitely an excellent workout... so much good stuff!!!!!
    i hope you don't mind (again!) that i took a couple of liberties here and there,
    but i did try to remain faithful to the spirit of what you played.
    :)
    Jazzy 8s (mm transcription)

    NB: Transcribing solos can be a very useful tool, not just in terms of figuring out what was
    played but also why it worked/sounded so cool against the underlying harmonic framework.
    Monte's playing is always inventive and intriguing imo.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2019
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  14. simoncroft

    simoncroft Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter

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    I'm afraid I haven't with any new tunes yet, but I'm getting better with the chords. Just so you know I've done some work:



    Incidentally, the title is a reference to the time someone on ST was stupid enough to say they'd learned "the jazz scale". When David pointed out jazz used all the scales, and they were actually in some context with the regard to the underlying changes, so there was no 'jazz scale', The Idiot wrote back to say. "Maybe your teacher hasn't got round to showing it to you yet..."

    At which point, David revealed the extent of his qualifications, The Idiot posted something about his phone was playing up lately, and promptly disappeared off the thread...
     
  15. simoncroft

    simoncroft Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter

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    I shouldn't take the thread off-topic, but I created this video in celebration of the 'jazz scale' incident. That was April 2016.



    @dogletnoir: that transcription is a work of genius, especially considering the speed with which you did it. :)
     
  16. Thrup'ny Bit

    Thrup'ny Bit Grand Master Curmudgeon Strat-Talk Supporter

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    Was it really that long ago? It seems like just last week.
     
  17. dogletnoir

    dogletnoir WBLV Strat-Talk Supporter

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    The work you're putting in is showing, because this is sounding great, @simoncroft.
    The solo section reminds me of something, but i can't think what... maybe my poor little brain needs more coffee.

    As for the 'jazz scale', LOL.
    If we take the idea of scales being about which pitches are left out to its reductio ad absurdum,
    then the true 'jazz scale' would have to be the chromatic scale, since it not only contains every possible chord tone
    but also every possible alteration as well.
    All of the heptatonic, hexatonic, and pentatonic scales are also contained within it, making it the 'one scale to rule them all'.

    One must always remember, though... it's what you leave out at any given moment that makes it musical.
    Just blowing straight chromatic scales non-stop on a jazz gig isn't gonna make you very popular with either the MD or the audience, LOL.
    :)

    As for the transcription, thanks for those kind words... but the genius is @montemerrick, really,
    and that's what i was trying to demonstrate.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2019
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  18. davidKOS

    davidKOS still at it Strat-Talk Supporter

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    I don't like to drop the Master's-in-Music-studied-with-Ellis Marsalis-bop w/ Les Wise-and-in-New-Orleans card too often...

    but when I do, it usually works.:cool::eek::p:D

    Nice work on this track, Simon.
     
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  19. davidKOS

    davidKOS still at it Strat-Talk Supporter

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    Nice idea there!

    and great transcription work.

    One traditional jazz study technique is transcribing solos of famous players - it's both a good ear training and music writing exercise, but it helps one learn how to solo.
     
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  20. simoncroft

    simoncroft Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter

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    Good perspective. It reminds me of the story about someone asking a great sculptor how he fashioned such a fantastic figure of an elephant, to which he replied: "I chip off the bits that don't look like an elephant." Less facetiously, Michelangelo believed the sculptor was a tool of God, not creating but simply revealing the powerful figures already contained in the marble. He left many pieces 'non finito' as a powerful illustration that the figure was within the original block. Your idea that all scales are the chromtic scale with notes selectively omitted follows a simlar logic. It's all 'in there'.

    Sometime in the 1970s, I read letter in a UK magazine for guitarists in which a school headmaster blithely asserted "all jazz is chromatic" (which is not at all what you're saying). Although I didn't know much about jazz (still don't), this struck me as the laziest, smuggest, piece of half-baked nonsense I had ever read! Not only could I hear it wasn't true, it was of no help to the student at all. Even if he was such a dull man, he went through a piece of music ticking off the pitches he encountered until he had checked all 12 boxes, it didn't mean that at any given bar, the playing was chromatic. Even I could hear that!

    He might as well have said: "Oh jazz, just play any old crap" for all the good it would have done any aspiring jazz guitarist. Alas, headmaster was clearly not used to being contradicted, and mounted an increasingly tedious defense of his position, against better informed voices, until the editor got bored.

    Thank you again, E, for taking so much trouble to reveal the inner beauty of Monte's piece.
     
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