Problem with volume swells when distortion pedal is after volume pedal.

Discussion in 'The Effect effect' started by optofonik, Jul 26, 2020.

  1. optofonik

    optofonik Strat-Talker

    Messages:
    381
    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2015
    Location:
    Californiia
    I've got a Dark Matter distortion pedal that I simply can't tame. I want to be able to use the volume pedal (a Fender FVP-1 passive volume pedal) in the chain before the the DM but when the DM is engaged I can't get a smooth swell; when it's not engaged all is well. When engaged there's a point where it just pops in. It's my understanding that as the volume tone the tone should start relatively clean and increase smoothly as the VP is swept to full volume.

    The chain is: GTR > Keeley 4 Knob Comp > Fender VP > Empress ParaEQ > TC Dark Matter Distortion > time based FX

    Also, this is from the Dark Matter manual:
    "Touch sensitive – control tone and distortion level by pick attack and your guitars volume knob"

    What am I doing wrong?
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2020
    Nate D likes this.
  2. CB91710

    CB91710 This is a Custom Title Gold Member Strat-Talk Supporter

    Messages:
    3,662
    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2019
    Location:
    SoCal
    It depends on the design of the distortion pedal. Some will roll on smoothly, but not all will.
    It should react similarly to the volume pedal as it would to the guitar volume pot (with the compressor off)
    I'm not familiar with the Dark Matter.
     
    Electgumbo and Nate D like this.
  3. Bob the builder

    Bob the builder Most Honored Senior Member

    Age:
    59
    Messages:
    5,631
    Joined:
    May 2, 2016
    Location:
    Cranston, Rhode Island
    Just for giggles try moving the v/p after the dist.
     
    JB74 and circles like this.
  4. The-Kid

    The-Kid Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter Vendor Member

    Age:
    30
    Messages:
    10,156
    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2014
    Location:
    SO CAL USA
    Your impedances may be mismatched.

    Are all these True Bypass pedals?
     
  5. ProSonicLive

    ProSonicLive Senior Stratmaster

    Age:
    36
    Messages:
    2,896
    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2016
    Location:
    Texas
    I don't know how fender does it, but I once had a volume pedal that had a similar issue.
    Turns out the pedal used an audio taper pot. this can be fine on a guitar, but can make volume swells uneven.
    It should be using a linear taper pot.

    also, try rolling the level down on the drive pedal.
     
    tinkertoy likes this.
  6. Robins

    Robins Dr. von Loudster Strat-Talk Supporter

    Messages:
    12,547
    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2010
    Location:
    Germany
    Guitar - volume pedal.
    All other settings don't make any sense at all.
    All the best,
    Robin
     
    nickmsmith likes this.
  7. The-Kid

    The-Kid Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter Vendor Member

    Age:
    30
    Messages:
    10,156
    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2014
    Location:
    SO CAL USA
    I really feel here seeing the chain you just have true bypass in between those two pedals and no buffers.

    There may be an impedance mismatch with the volume and DS as a result of this when they are engaged.

    Look for a buffer type pedals and stick it right after the volume pedal between it and the TC and it may help a ton.

    Ymmv but this happens sometimes and placing a buffer in between trouble pedals helps solve issues like this sometimes.
     
    optofonik likes this.
  8. AngeloEvs

    AngeloEvs Strat-Talker

    Age:
    62
    Messages:
    137
    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2020
    Location:
    East Anglia UK
    Volume pedal should be last in the chain but before any delay/reverb fx for correct swells but value of pot in the volume pedal may need to be changed to suit the output impedance of the last FX in the chain - 100k log would probably be a good starting point.
     
    nickmsmith likes this.
  9. jungle faced jake

    jungle faced jake Strat-Talker

    Age:
    50
    Messages:
    440
    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2015
    Location:
    Germany
    Just a question;
    if you manually do a swell with the volume knob of the compressor,
    is the outcome any different?
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2020
  10. optofonik

    optofonik Strat-Talker

    Messages:
    381
    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2015
    Location:
    Californiia
    Could you be more detailed please.
     
  11. optofonik

    optofonik Strat-Talker

    Messages:
    381
    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2015
    Location:
    Californiia

    The Keeley compressor is true bypass the Empress ParaEQ can do either. I've tried both setting on the Empress to no avail.

    Also, this is from the Dark Matter manual:

    "Touch sensitive – control tone and distortion level by pick attack and your guitars volume knob"
     
    The-Kid likes this.
  12. The-Kid

    The-Kid Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter Vendor Member

    Age:
    30
    Messages:
    10,156
    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2014
    Location:
    SO CAL USA
    Hmmmm....


    Have your tried the Empress in between these two set to buffer.

    So Guitar-->VP-->Empress/Buffer--->DS.

    The thing is to have the buffer litterally in between the trouble pedals. This way you can see if its that and then get an independent buffer for it.


    Also have you tried other DS in that position?


    It may be the DS or the pot in the Volume pedal at that point. If you have another DS box laying around put it in place if the current one and see its that but also try the Empress inbetween them in buffer mode. Simply switching to buffer is not enough placement is requiered as well if it is an impedance mismatch if its not then its either the DS pedal or the pot in the Volume pedal itself.
     
    optofonik likes this.
  13. LawFlow

    LawFlow Strat-Talk Member

    Age:
    68
    Messages:
    59
    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2019
    Location:
    Oklahoma
    I don't know if this matters, but that Fender volume pedal has a "treble bleed circuit" that works like the volume control on the American Pro strat.
     
    optofonik likes this.
  14. nickmsmith

    nickmsmith Jaguar Convert Strat-Talk Supporter

    Messages:
    11,019
    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2011
    Location:
    Pawnee, Indiana
    I can imagine that volume pedal before distortion could cause issues.
    I’d think most people would want to volume swell the distorted signal, not swell the clean channel, then distort it.

    like someone else said earlier, I’d have volume control after everything but delay/reverb. I’d want my OD/distortion, compression, chorus/tremolo, etc. all before the volume pedal.
     
    optofonik and The-Kid like this.
  15. Nate D

    Nate D Most Honored Senior Member Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    39
    Messages:
    7,216
    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2016
    Location:
    Philly, PA
    Pretty simple solution here... use the volume knob(s) already on your guitar. No pedal needed. There’s already something on your guitar that does that. Seriously it’s designed to do just that. It does it well. And it’ll save you $119 on Sweetwater.

    But you may need to practice. That’s the ***** of it.
     
    optofonik and JB74 like this.
  16. optofonik

    optofonik Strat-Talker

    Messages:
    381
    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2015
    Location:
    Californiia
    If I'm using an E-Bow I want the VP. I tried the git's volume knob and it produces the same result.
     
    Nate D likes this.
  17. tinkertoy

    tinkertoy Strat-Talker

    Age:
    46
    Messages:
    490
    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2020
    Location:
    alpha centauri
    Has the OP tried doing swells with the volume knob on the guitar with the volume pedal wide open?

    That eliminates all pedals as variables.
    If it works this way, it is the volume pedal, or buffer issue as others have said.

    There is a small chance that the dark matter has input sensitivity issues at the quiet end of the spectrum too
     
  18. Believer7713

    Believer7713 The Pink Bunny Frankenstein Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    46
    Messages:
    9,552
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2016
    Location:
    KC
    I have run into issues with different Independence between pedals causing serious issues myself. The fix was frustrating but the easiest thing in the world for me. I would start with checking the patch cables. I had one that wouldn't allow the signal to pass cleanly when my wah pedal was on. once I swapped it out all was good. It was a 5 dollar fix but took me a couple hours to trace down since I was playing a board that was rather large at the time.
     
  19. 1300Valencia

    1300Valencia Senior Stratmaster

    Messages:
    1,351
    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2011
    Location:
    Fullerton
    "Touch sensitive – control tone and distortion level by pick attack and your guitars volume knob"

    This works with nothing between the guitar and the pedal, which is not the situation we have here.

    It's the compressor. Any attempt at volume dynamics is compromised by the compressor, especially the way most use one, with the guitar volume knob up all the way, all of the time.

    And also especially true if playing at very low volume. If you're nice and loud you have way more headroom, or distance between very clean and very dirty. This distance goes away rapidly as you decrease the overall loudness.
     
    CB91710 likes this.