Regarding Made in Mexico or Made in Indonesia Strats or FMIC Products in general.........

Discussion in 'Stratocaster Discussion Forum' started by The-Kid, Apr 30, 2021.

  1. The-Kid

    The-Kid Dr. Stratster

    Age:
    31
    Messages:
    11,539
    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2014
    Location:
    SO CAL USA
    Made in Korea, Made in Japan or MIA guitars....


    5 to 3 years ago I honestly couldnt say MIM and MADE IN INDONESIA is as good or better but now......MIM and especially Made in Indonesia I can confidentially say has met or surpassed MIK, MIJ or MIA in some cases with models for example from Shecter starting at 600$ with the hard tail they make with the Armageddon Pups and spalted tops.....pick up any Charvel MIM.......same thing...or some of the Made in Indonesia Fender offerings......


    Jackson Made in Indonesia models.....amazing and phenomenal quality and sound rivaling MIK, MIJ or MIA in my experience!!!


    And we'll yeah........I dont think it matters where it's made genuinely as long as quality and build are solid in general......






    Damn...

    Its a good time to be a player with this quality from any country you buy a guitar from at a specific price point. Key word(s)......AT A SPECIFIC PRICE POINT.......

    700$-900$ and up.....






    The quality you are getting now from imports is crazy good and its not going to get better from this point on IMO....buy now before companies Jack up prices and realize what they have done unintentionally or lower quality to compensate for how expensive their flagship MIJ or MIA models are in either case.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2021
  2. Tsjackson

    Tsjackson Senior Stratmaster

    Messages:
    1,016
    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2016
    Location:
    UK
    I had a bit of experience last year with some Asian made guitars and was blown away by the quality.

    Half the budget your talking about, so I can only imagine what they must be like but I had a Chinese squier classic vibe that was flawless visually and excellent to play and tonally, A fender modern player telecaster was also amazingly finished and played beautifully and a G&L fallout tribute.

    The only recent experience I had of a higher priced Korean made guitar was a peerless wizard which was extremely good in every way.

    so yes, I completely agree
     
    The-Kid and 3bolt79 like this.
  3. The-Kid

    The-Kid Dr. Stratster

    Age:
    31
    Messages:
    11,539
    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2014
    Location:
    SO CAL USA
    Squires and the sub 600$ range are amazing and take the part mid tier models like MIM or MIK used to take but now current MIM and MII(made in Indonesia) have met or surpassed the MIA/MIJ and easily MIK builds in quality and build at the 700$+ level IMO...getting a MiA/MIJ domestic build at this point or any high dollar guitar at this point is for no other reason but for the point that one can or there are not any viable alternatives spec-wise and quality-wise but the quality and performance does not increase any more in general no matter where the guitar is made at this point IMO when it comes to 700$+ imports from Mexico or Indonesia.



    MIA prices and MIJ prices need to come down and find a way to compete IMO. Its not about these other places having cheaper labor at this point or whatever BS excuses one cares to come up with.....

    There are 4 options.....



    1) Compete and make a better product from MIJ\MIA if possible and keep prices the same....Which is cool but I highly doubt a better product can be made at this point vs 700$+ imports at this specific Flashpoint in the guitar industry.....



    2) Lower prices for MIA/MIJ so you can actually compete and reflect real quality and not just a certain place of origin for the build to justify price as quality across the globe for guitars have reached a peak as far as quality goes in the 700$+ import range vs domestic MIJ/MIA builds for any money past the 700$ mark when it comes to imports vs domestic MIJ/MIA respectively.


    3)Lower quality for imports so it makes sense to buy an MIA/MIJ or bring prices higher on imports to reflect quality.



    4) Keep it as it is and keep domestic MIJ/MIA prices significantly higher than imports for whatever reason.






    I'm thinking companies are going to go with option 3 or 4 because they really dont know what they have done in this sense regarding offshore builds and quality and how good they made them and they stand to make the same amount of money or more in the immediate sense with either option number 1 or 2.


    But I would go for option 2 as this reflects honest quality IMO no matter where its made......sure have an MIM or Made Indonesia cost as much as an MIA or MIJ but also have that MIA or MIJ price lowered because in 2021 MIJ and MIA guitars are not any better vs 700$+ imports.........


    They just cost more.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2021
    3bolt79 likes this.
  4. AxemanVR

    AxemanVR I appreciate, therefore I am... Silver Member

    Messages:
    4,604
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2014
    Location:
    Minnesota USA
    `
    Well, maybe I'm the luckiest person on earth, but my MIM and MIA guitar buying experience has been overwhelmingly good in the past couple decades. So to say "something is better than something else" is difficult to ascertain as far as I'm concerned. I'd be more apt to agree that "the quality gap across the board has been substantially narrowed" in that same period of time.

    But a greater consideration (imo) is that, from low-end to high-end, the only real question is "how much are you willing to spend for that quality"? - keeping in mind the quality of life for the people involved, and, that the imports are far less expensive because their labor costs are much lower - implying potential worker exploitation and unacceptable standards of living are involved in order to keep those prices artificially low.

    IBTL!...



    `
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2021
  5. rocknrollrich

    rocknrollrich Most Honored Senior Member

    Age:
    50
    Messages:
    5,370
    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2016
    Location:
    philadelphia
    I think (my opinion of course) is that it now comes down to materials.
    Before it came down to workmanship and materials.
    With cnc machines making things, a lot of the inconsistencies between makers (foreign/domestic) are now gone.
    Yes, there is still "attention to detail" and other small differences, but the lines of.... "better than" have certainly been blurred.

    Like I said, nowadays, whoever is using the better materials (hardware, woods) has the advantage.

    There are of course some very high quality guitars that I don't see any rivals to, but on the mass production market, it's kinda up for grabs.
     
    3bolt79, ZlurkCorzDog and AxemanVR like this.
  6. The-Kid

    The-Kid Dr. Stratster

    Age:
    31
    Messages:
    11,539
    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2014
    Location:
    SO CAL USA

    3-5 years ago this may have been the case but now the gap between 700$+ imports and MIA/MIJ guitars has not narrowed more....it has closed and in some cases I definitely would say the imports are not just the same quality but better.


    Again 3-5 years ago this was not the case in the early 2010s...2000s and 90s this may have been the case that "quality has narrowed and MIA/MIJ are a tad bit better".....but.....





    In 2021 700$+ imports are as good as any domestic MIJ/MIA IMO or better.





    And say what you will....but thats awesome for everyone Imo!!!!!


     
    3bolt79 likes this.
  7. AxemanVR

    AxemanVR I appreciate, therefore I am... Silver Member

    Messages:
    4,604
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2014
    Location:
    Minnesota USA
    `
    Yeah, that's what I said, the quality has improved across the board. I never said one was better than the other - but pricing is a different story entirely. The quality of a Fender and a Squier are no doubt on par these days, but you are expected to pay more for the Fender. Why? Well it ain't because the import people are willing to take a loss in profit.

    But if someone asks me for advice about a Squier or Epiphone, I'd honestly tell them that in my experience their quality is excellent on the most part. So you and I are not at odds as far as that discussion is concerned... only on the philosophical conscientious questions...


    `
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2021
    3bolt79 and Stratafied like this.
  8. The-Kid

    The-Kid Dr. Stratster

    Age:
    31
    Messages:
    11,539
    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2014
    Location:
    SO CAL USA
    Sadly thats not the case regarding Squiers IMO.



    Any current production Squier is not as good as a Fender or anything costing twice as much.... Even Fender Imports have widened the gap on that front and make sure their low end Squires dont have a chance in touching or coming close to their Fender imports or the Jackson and Charvel import range IMO.


    Again its not whether a guitar is made in a specific place or not... its not the country of origin that determines quality, its the price point and what that price from respective country brings and as good as Squiers have gotten non of them are as good as any similar import that cost 700$+ from Fender, Jackson, Charvel, Shecter, Dean, Epiphone etc etc in the same price point IMO in build, quality, hardware, sound etc etc.......



    When you get to the 700$ threshold its not just for a guitar that is decent any more like Squires and Pacificas in the 650$ range or below for example...you really are getting an as good or better instrument than MIJ/MIA products in any respect when getting a 700$ import from MiM or Made in Indonesia.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2021
    3bolt79 likes this.
  9. Ebidis

    Ebidis Providing the world with flat bends since 1985

    Age:
    54
    Messages:
    19,924
    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2013
    Location:
    Alabama
  10. AxemanVR

    AxemanVR I appreciate, therefore I am... Silver Member

    Messages:
    4,604
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2014
    Location:
    Minnesota USA
    `
    I'll compromise with you and settle with "as good" - but "better" has to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. So if you are able to systematically buy 100 guitars from every known manufacturer in the $700+ price range and document every possible flaw and illustrate this all on an appropriate graph (with witnesses to the entire process involved of course) then I will take whatever you say as fact, otherwise it's all pure speculation...



    `
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2021
    3bolt79 likes this.
  11. The-Kid

    The-Kid Dr. Stratster

    Age:
    31
    Messages:
    11,539
    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2014
    Location:
    SO CAL USA
    @AxemanVR if a Squier was anywhere near the quality of a Fender or similar products costing twice as much I would sell all my guitars and buy Squiers... But thats not so and Squires are not as good or better than Fenders or similar products costing twice as much so no.....



    This aint the 80s and these are not MIJ Squires nor are they bringing the same quality....so no.
     
    3bolt79 and Slyy like this.
  12. AxemanVR

    AxemanVR I appreciate, therefore I am... Silver Member

    Messages:
    4,604
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2014
    Location:
    Minnesota USA
    `
    Well, to be sure, I was referring to the original Squier Classic Vibe line, not to the current Indonesia models (which I admittedly have not tried).

    But that's neither here nor there. Your claim is that certain import brands of a certain price range are equal or better than other North and Middle American brands. I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just asking you to prove it through scientific methodology...



    `
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2021
    3bolt79 likes this.
  13. The-Kid

    The-Kid Dr. Stratster

    Age:
    31
    Messages:
    11,539
    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2014
    Location:
    SO CAL USA


    Ive played them and will have to tell you MIJ/mIAs have as much flaws or lack of flaws as some of these 700$+ imports. The quality is the same or better IMO from imports in this case actually trying guitars of different makes, countries of origin and price points.


    At this point the MIa/MIJ and domestics need to bring their game up to justify prices or lower prices and keep quality the same and actually compete or bring the quality of imports down to justify buying a domestic at these prices or keep it the same.
     
    3bolt79 likes this.
  14. AxemanVR

    AxemanVR I appreciate, therefore I am... Silver Member

    Messages:
    4,604
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2014
    Location:
    Minnesota USA
    `
    Well, I'm telling you my experience (with at least the MIM & MIA models) is the exact opposite... so it appears we are at a stalemate...


    IBTL part II!



    `
     
  15. The-Kid

    The-Kid Dr. Stratster

    Age:
    31
    Messages:
    11,539
    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2014
    Location:
    SO CAL USA
    Yeah well thats nice and an appropriate response 3-5 years ago.....


    But in 2021 not so much....if your living in 2011 then yes your right...



    But again this is 2021 and not 2011......



    Remember its 2021 my guy ;)
     
    3bolt79 likes this.
  16. AxemanVR

    AxemanVR I appreciate, therefore I am... Silver Member

    Messages:
    4,604
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2014
    Location:
    Minnesota USA
    `
    I just bought a brand new 2021 Fender American Original 60s Strat neck and it is excellent. I also just bought a brand new 2021 Fender MIM Classic Series 60s body, as well as a brand new set of Fender Original '57/'62 pickups - love them! Oh yeah, just got a brand new Fender American Vintage Tremolo too - perfect! Went to a high-end guitar shop recently, did not see anything as atrocious as you are implying. I played a brand new Fender Vintera 60s Modified Strat and a brand new Fender Player Telecaster - nothing but good things to say about either of them!

    Sorry, I honestly can't agree with your assessment of Fender's current piss poor quality...


    IBTL Part III!


    `
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2021
  17. The-Kid

    The-Kid Dr. Stratster

    Age:
    31
    Messages:
    11,539
    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2014
    Location:
    SO CAL USA
    I'm not saying a Custom Shop or Master Built does not have its perks or appeal but regular production domestics just arent what they use to be relative to the quality the imports have reached in the 700$+ range.
     
    3bolt79 likes this.
  18. The-Kid

    The-Kid Dr. Stratster

    Age:
    31
    Messages:
    11,539
    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2014
    Location:
    SO CAL USA
    Yeah no ones saying MIA or MIM is poor quality its just there is no real lack in quality between the 700+ MIM and the MIA guitars anymore.


    Quality is much the same and well not just comparing MIM and MIA but any Fender in the 700$+ range or similar products in the 700$+ range, if the import MIM or Made In Indonesia builds are not better they are just as good at the least IMO.


    Again I'm not saying a Custom Shop or Master Built does not have its perks or appeal but regular production domestics just arent what they use to be relative to the quality the imports have reached in the 700$+ range.

    Cheers and enjoy!!! :)
     
    3bolt79 likes this.
  19. Seamus OReally

    Seamus OReally Mr. Serious Gold Supporting Member

    Age:
    64
    Messages:
    4,287
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2019
    Location:
    Santa Rosa, CA
    To be fair, SOME Squiers are equal in quality to anything built anywhere. My Squier VM HSS Telecaster is an absolute monster, equal to any Telecaster I ever picked up (including a MIJ Tele I played, like, 20 years ago and still can't forget). It was made in India, of local woods, and it sings like a canary.

    Finding those means going out and playing guitars. You're not likely to find a killer ordering online.
     
  20. heltershelton

    heltershelton BANNED Silver Member

    Messages:
    28,942
    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2013
    Location:
    Texas
    give it up man.
    dont you know he knows everything about everything, and his knowledge on every subject under the sun is far superior to ours?
    im thinking I should have gone to him for my heart surgery.