Remember the young journalist asking us about ash guitars for an article?

Discussion in 'Sidewinders Bar & Grille' started by guitarchaeologist, Oct 28, 2020.

  1. JamieHenry

    JamieHenry Strat-Talker

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    There's a lot of context missing here, but I see no clear evidence of "science" having occurred at all. Was this "research scientist" working for a company that was hoping to sell some kind of Ginko Bilboa product? A real scientist would have been trying to discover what Ginko Biloba was like, not trying to prove the efficacy of it. A business has one main agenda, and will often do and say anything to make money, that's often tragically been shown over and over. That your son might have been used isn't surprising. So what was your point? Are you saying all science is bad, or unbelievable? That because some shady company trying to market pixie dust didn't work out, valid science trying to save lives is bunk? I bought a guitar I didn't like once, it didn't sour me on playing others.
     
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  2. simoncroft

    simoncroft Dr. Stratster Silver Member

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    Among the great many intelligent and honest things Ron has said over the years, one of my favourites regarding body woods in electric guitars was something like: "Yes, it makes a difference, but not as much difference as where in a room you place your amp."

    Ron has also pointed out that if you want, for instance, a brighter-sounding guitar, there are controls on the amp that address that kind of need... :sneaky:
     
  3. Bcorig

    Bcorig Senior Stratmaster Gold Supporting Member

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    Say goodbye to this thread.
    It’s always all or nothing, isn’t it?
    I come here not to be scolded.
     
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  4. Seamus OReally

    Seamus OReally Buried alive in the blues Gold Supporting Member

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    The scientist worked for a university that my son attended. The money for university research frequently comes from manufacturers, and they want a given result. For example, I worked with Central Soya, a huge multinational soy bean company (now owned by Cereol), who bestowed money on various universities for research into lecithin, which Central Soya was hopping to present as a supplement that could prevent aging of the brain. The schools that got the promising results got more grants. The others didn't.

    Science is not the pure pursuit it's presented as in the movies.
     
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  5. RadioFM74

    RadioFM74 Senior Stratmaster

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    Unfortunately, it's not only America – although yes, in America it seems quite pronounced.

    I agree that the "tone wood" thing is just… :rolleyes: But let's not be too harsh on the girl. She's still a journalist and needs something like a hook for her piece. Besides, the real point of the article is not "oh, those snappy tones we won't have anymore" but "climate change and an invasive alien species are killing off swamp ash".

    Kotzen sums it up quite well. I quote from the article: “I can adapt to a new wood,” Kotzen says. “But I’m much more bothered by the environmental issue.”

    Yeah, I subscribe even if I don't believe in "tone woods". And besides, ash does look pretty on a Fender guitar…
     
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  6. Hydr0

    Hydr0 Senior Stratmaster

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  7. Miotch

    Miotch Senior Stratmaster

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    Oops, I posted another link to this article before I saw this post.
     
  8. Lone Woof

    Lone Woof Senior Stratmaster

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  9. HazyPurple

    HazyPurple Strat-O-Master Silver Member

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    I'm gonna look after my Ash body...

    IMG_20201025_110754.jpg
     
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  10. bchaffin72

    bchaffin72 The Wizard next door................

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    Controls on an amp? To change your tone?? And that might do more than tone wood??? Crazy talk!!:D
     
  11. montemerrick

    montemerrick no earthly reason why

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    i read the article and thought it was well sourced without any kind of outrageous claims. if youre looking for some hidden agenda your own confirmation bias will always be there to lend a hand.
     
  12. nickmsmith

    nickmsmith Dr. Stratster

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    It's just the fact that she asked for opinions of the tonality of wood. members gave their opinions on the lack of difference, and the author went the route of quoting only the voices that gave the opposite idea.

    It does make for a better story than "It's just an interchangeable piece of wood that makes no difference in the guitar sound"

    She wanted to portray that it makes a difference in sound. forum members didn't give her that. That's all.

    The story is totally fine, and serves a good purpose. She decided to disregard this data, for whatever reason.

    It's pretty much a footnote in the article, anyway.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2020
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  13. Hydr0

    Hydr0 Senior Stratmaster

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    I have personal experience dealing with reporters, so maybe I'm a little biased. I was on the call list to reporters for market updates about energy futures prices. When I first got the opportunity, i was excited, but it didn't take long for me to learn that all they wanted was for me to give them the quote they wanted, not what was really happening in the market.

    For example:

    Reporter: "are gasoline prices up today because wall street speculators are pushing up the price?"

    Me: "Well, they might be buying today, along with everyone else, because a major refinery unexpectedly increased its maintenance period for its turnaround limiting supply for a longer period, weekly gasoline demand numbers were reported to be higher than expected in the U.S., supply of gasoline in Europe are lower than expected and shipping rates increased, which removed the arb to bring gasoline to the U.S. from Europe. Also, Asian gasoline exports continue fall and are now below its monthly average."

    Reporter: "So, you said there was hedge fund buying?"

    Me: "possibly, but there are other factors having a much larger impact on today's price move, fundamental reasons."

    Reporter: "OK, thanks"

    Story comes out, not a word about what i said, but they did find someone from another firm to tell them they believe hedge funds are squeezing any remaining shorts and pushing the market higher, so they get their headline, "Wall Street Hedge Funds Making a Fortune by Pushing Up Gasoline Prices Against U.S. Motorists"

    I wasn't going after her, well, I guess I did sort of, but it's just something I've seen literally hundreds of times over my career...I guess I could be a little judgemental when it comes to reporters..either way, to me, it looked like it was what it was.

    boy, do i feel like a grumpy old man after typing all that...btw..i do believe humans affect climate change, but I just don't like when people try to hook people into a cause under false pretenses. I guess i don't even have to say where i am on the tone wood debate :D
     
  14. Hydr0

    Hydr0 Senior Stratmaster

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    I might be a little biased, but it comes from experience ;)

    At the end of the day it's a business and they need clicks to survive. I get it. I'm not in a position to say that i believe this particular reporter was pushing her own agenda about climate change, but she definitely wanted to include the parts of the story that would give it the most clicks and shares. And for the general public, tone wood doesn't make much of a tonal difference to an electric guitar obviously isn't one of them. Our view would have kinda ruined her article, so she didnt even entertain the idea, that's all I'm saying.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2020
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  15. Bcorig

    Bcorig Senior Stratmaster Gold Supporting Member

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    I’m so cynical about any form of news reporting these days. I admire you for doing it in the first place.
     
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  16. Bcorig

    Bcorig Senior Stratmaster Gold Supporting Member

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  17. scooteraz

    scooteraz Senior Stratmaster

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    Not a great article on a number of issues. Besides the already mentioned tone wood comments there were other assertions that were not necessarily supported.

    For instance, the article focused on climate change for the flooding, without noting the increased flooding due to the increased river flows due to “protective” dikes all up and down the river. And before you all jump on me about this, her own publication published an article on it a while back.

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/irony-levees-could-make-river-flooding-worse/

    Wired also had a similar article

    https://www.wired.com/story/too-much-engineering-has-made-mississippi-river-floods-worse/

    I can’t find the article, but there was one that noted the rainfall hadn’t changed all that much, but that floods had gotten much worse because of the poor understanding of the hydrology of the overall river system. Not because there was so much more water being dropped in the basin.

    So, I read the article and had a big “meh”.
     
  18. bsman

    bsman Strat-O-Master

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    Oh man - that looks like beetle (or maybe Beatle) damage. Better send it to me for proper disposal, just to be safe! ;)
     
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  19. Nate D

    Nate D Most Honored Senior Member

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    Yep. It was a good article. Worth the read. Very well written and the point was well articulated.
     
  20. Blackmore Fan

    Blackmore Fan Senior Stratmaster

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    Lol.