Your right, and that should be remembered. Their being jailed for their protests. Unfortunately for their governmnent we live in the digital age and they can't hide what's happening from their own people like they once perhaps could.
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Safety for All
- Thread starter Geoff06
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I also studied history and like you i'm perplexed by Putins behaviour recently. I think he has miscalculated in that he thought he was dealing with a "country" with a small less equipped army when in fact the is dealing with a "nation" of 40 million people united against him.
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RobZ69
Senior Stratmaster
I think he genuinely thought the people would welcome the Russian forces. He's been in sycophant echo-chamber.
I firmly believe this signals the end of his reign and that some of his generals will pull the plug on him at a certain point in time.
RobZ69
Senior Stratmaster
Many of the older Russian generation still rely on state media only. They haven't heard a single fact in the last decade.
Well the oligarchs have already started breaking ranks so here's hoping the Generals do the same. I fear ultimately though it will be left to the Russian people to get rid of him.
Guy Named Sue
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RobZ69
Senior Stratmaster
Maybe not of him specifically. But of his 'legacy' certainly.
Oldboy
Senior Stratmaster
Can anyone translate? I'm really curious about this one!
A coup isn't out of the question imo.
RobZ69
Senior Stratmaster
Just a guess: thanks little friend for delivering Moscow to us after all.Can anyone translate? I'm really curious about this one!
RobZ69
Senior Stratmaster
Certainly not. Even if they capture Kiev, the fighting won't be over for weeks and months. But who knows who'll replace him? Hopefully the sanctions won't be over until the Russian people (finally) truly take control. That could take a while though.
Guy Named Sue
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I mean as if posting hitler/political memes weren't enough, you're now posting something that you have no idea what it says because it's in a different language. For all we know it could be a pro Russia meme.Can anyone translate? I'm really curious about this one!
Oldboy
Senior Stratmaster
RobZ69
Senior Stratmaster
Good point
crankmeister
Most Honored Senior Member
Well, ok, more than latent. But I meant going back to the Cold War days and the process of perestroika. Eastern Ukraine has been “Russified” for a long time and what’s been happening over the past decade is not surprising. Jeffrey Sachs and company were incapable when it came to dealing with these deep-seeded differences in the 1990s (or maybe too eager to call it a “mission accomplished”?) and now here we are.
It's good to hear from some who are personally affected by this. My thoughts and much prayer are with and for you. This is a good discussion. Thank you all.
I didn't realize we had any historians here. That's awesome. I'm quite "pattern-oriented" and it's interesting, terrifying, eye-opening and encouraging seeing various world events through the lens of historical knowledge. I appreciate your responses, which seem to bolster the statements I've come across. I hadn't paid a lot of attention to Putin's actions prior to the past few years.
I didn't realize we had any historians here. That's awesome. I'm quite "pattern-oriented" and it's interesting, terrifying, eye-opening and encouraging seeing various world events through the lens of historical knowledge. I appreciate your responses, which seem to bolster the statements I've come across. I hadn't paid a lot of attention to Putin's actions prior to the past few years.
Guy Named Sue
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If the rumors are true that in the last 12 hours Russians have started actually using thermobaric bombs in Ukraine, then something needs to be done immediately. That's just as horrific as it can possibly get.
muttonbuster
Strat-O-Master
I sure wonder about it. Any semi decent military strategist could have told him, "No, Vlad, this is not Georgia. Ukraine has sizeable forces, and you will not get a cakewalk if you go beyond Donbas." Now he's gotten himself into a situation that if he wants the whole enchilada and this drags on for six months, Russia will look like the Soviet Union did in 1989: mired in a money pit of a war with huge cracks in the foundation. I don't think the Russian citizens are going to put up with being dialed back to a Soviet lifestyle. I guess it's not surprising given the First Chechen War for sure, and even the Georgian War and Second Chechen War to some extent. The incompetent, lightbulb eating yesmen leadership in the post Soviet Russian Army have a penchant for severely underestimating their adversary.
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RobZ69
Senior Stratmaster
I'm not sure what message you are trying to convey here exactly, nor do I remember clearly who this Sachs was, but it seems to me the Ukrainians, Europe and NATO were doing ok-ish dealing with these differences until a certain Russian president decided to intervene and start to (at first covertly) destabilize a sovereign neighboring county, then shoot down a passenger airliner and now just blatantly invade it.
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muttonbuster
Strat-O-Master
Not surprised at all that he's resorting to that. Unless this wraps up very quickly, he's going to lose the handle on the Russian public. This is just as tragic for the mothers of the Russian soldiers not knowing if their son is coming back, and having to call a Ukrainian hotline to find out. 5,300 casualties for the Russians in five days?! Sheesh, even if that number is half accurate, that's worse than the Soviet's worst week in Afghanistan. What is Putin going to do? Start locking up the families of his own soldiers to keep them from voicing their dissent? The guy is just nuts.
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