Stagger on Fender locking tuners

Discussion in 'Stratocaster Discussion Forum' started by Baelzebub, Jan 8, 2021.

  1. The Ballzz

    The Ballzz Senior Stratmaster

    Messages:
    2,169
    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2014
    Location:
    LAS VEGAS , NV
    A few years back, Fender listed individual locking tuners, but the only tall ones were right hand and the shorties only in left hand. I called Fender to politely whine and because they weren't listed as an available part, but they had them, the rep simply sent me two right hand shorties for my two sets that each needed a shorty to make them 4/2. He sent for FREE! I love my Fender lockers, but not as fond of a similar Schaller set!
    Ahhh, Those Were The Days,
    Gene
     
  2. nutball73

    nutball73 Senior Stratmaster

    Messages:
    2,592
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2013
    Location:
    Southern UK
    From a manufacturing perspective, 3+3 is one less product to make than 2+2+2... If 3+3 is good enough, then the cost saving is worth it (according to the Leo principle).
     
  3. Wrighty

    Wrighty Most Honored Senior Member

    Age:
    66
    Messages:
    7,968
    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2013
    Location:
    Harlow, Essex, UK
    When I got my new AmPro Tele I asked the shop to get their (very good) tech to fit my set of Ping locking tuners before I collected it. Picked it up, got it home, couldn’t work out what was odd about it. Then I noticed that the three tallest posts were on the bottom strings. Quick check to make sure it wasn’t me that had had them wrongly fitted for years and back it went. Turns out they’d entrusted the job to a guy on the sales floor. I gently remind him of it once in a while!
     
    CB91710 and Baelzebub like this.
  4. Wrighty

    Wrighty Most Honored Senior Member

    Age:
    66
    Messages:
    7,968
    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2013
    Location:
    Harlow, Essex, UK
    Oops, empty post.
     
  5. Wrighty

    Wrighty Most Honored Senior Member

    Age:
    66
    Messages:
    7,968
    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2013
    Location:
    Harlow, Essex, UK
    And another thing..................why do Fender recommend tuning UP to pitch except with licking tuners when they recommend tuning DOWN to pitch?
     
  6. telepraise

    telepraise Strat-Talker

    Age:
    65
    Messages:
    364
    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2019
    Location:
    Tampa Bay
    I have Hipshot staggered lockers on a partscaster tele, but at only 1-2mm difference in height I couldn't see the tension difference, so I put on string trees anyway (?)
     
  7. lammie200

    lammie200 Senior Stratmaster

    Messages:
    1,397
    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2016
    Location:
    San Francisco
    Not sure what you are saying. The shorter posts should be used for the higher (GBE) strings to get more break angle over the nut thus eliminating the need for string trees.

    Ultimately there is only one string length that will be in tune and strings need to eventually be stretched out to settle. Personally I tune up to pitch, play, tune up to pitch, play, repeat... Depending on temperature and humidity I may need to tune down after the guitar sits for a while. And sometimes I need to tune up.

    Staggers aren’t about tension. They are about break angle over the nut. Depending on that angle the string overrun from the nut to the tuning peg will behave differently. Not enough angle and more chance of sympathetic vibrations and unwanted tones. With the right break angle the use of string trees is redundant and not necessary.
     
    Baelzebub likes this.
  8. Baelzebub

    Baelzebub Most Honored Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,320
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2019
    Location:
    State of Disbelief
    Do they? I hadn't seen that. Up to pitch should be correct in any instance, if the reasons for it are sound, and I think they are. I can't see what, about the type of tuner, would change that.
     
  9. Wrighty

    Wrighty Most Honored Senior Member

    Age:
    66
    Messages:
    7,968
    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2013
    Location:
    Harlow, Essex, UK
    Well, first up,
     
  10. Wrighty

    Wrighty Most Honored Senior Member

    Age:
    66
    Messages:
    7,968
    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2013
    Location:
    Harlow, Essex, UK
    Nope, me neither. Looking for where I read it, I’ll post if I find it.
     
    Baelzebub likes this.
  11. rockon1

    rockon1 Senior Stratmaster

    Messages:
    1,067
    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2019
    Location:
    CT
    All I care about is not needing a tree on the E and B. I can get away with it on two out of three of my strats with the 3+3 stagger. For whatever reason theres just not quite enough break angle on the high E on one of them. :(
     
  12. CB91710

    CB91710 No GAS shortage here Double Platinum Supporting Member

    Messages:
    5,886
    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2019
    Location:
    SoCal
    I remember seeing that in a thread a couple of months ago and I think it was a misunderstanding.

    I suppose if you have locking tuners AND a Wilkinson or LSR roller nut, it wouldn't make much difference, but the friction from a regular nut will always mean that tuning up to pitch is preferable.
     
    Baelzebub likes this.
  13. Wrighty

    Wrighty Most Honored Senior Member

    Age:
    66
    Messages:
    7,968
    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2013
    Location:
    Harlow, Essex, UK
    OK, look at support.fender.com/GC/en-us/articles/212774786. Right towards the bottom, Additional Hints. Clearly states tuning down to tune with lockers. No explanation.
     
  14. CB91710

    CB91710 No GAS shortage here Double Platinum Supporting Member

    Messages:
    5,886
    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2019
    Location:
    SoCal
    Odd that they would say that. Makes no sense at all.
    Tuning down might work with a roller nut, but tuning up always works.
     
    StummerJoe likes this.
  15. StummerJoe

    StummerJoe Senior Stratmaster

    Age:
    48
    Messages:
    2,762
    Joined:
    May 10, 2020
    Location:
    Washington
    Suhr does 2-2-2. And they're fantastic!
     
  16. StummerJoe

    StummerJoe Senior Stratmaster

    Age:
    48
    Messages:
    2,762
    Joined:
    May 10, 2020
    Location:
    Washington
    Agreed. That's why it's called "Tuning UP". Literally. And I hate that word! lol
     
    scotjudy likes this.
  17. CB91710

    CB91710 No GAS shortage here Double Platinum Supporting Member

    Messages:
    5,886
    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2019
    Location:
    SoCal
    Tune 'em up tune 'em down bring 'em home bring 'em out make sure they're healthy make sure they're doing the right thing our way you know what I mean.....
    Few little rock and roll rituals, if anyone knows you know....
     
    StummerJoe likes this.
  18. StummerJoe

    StummerJoe Senior Stratmaster

    Age:
    48
    Messages:
    2,762
    Joined:
    May 10, 2020
    Location:
    Washington
    hahaha5.gif
     
    CB91710 likes this.
  19. Wrighty

    Wrighty Most Honored Senior Member

    Age:
    66
    Messages:
    7,968
    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2013
    Location:
    Harlow, Essex, UK
    Yep, wonder if it's worth an e-mail for their explanation?
     
  20. scotjudy

    scotjudy Strat-Talk Member

    Messages:
    12
    Joined:
    May 2, 2011
    Location:
    Maine
    I bought the 3/3 set. After experimenting with installing, I decided the 3 short ones are on g-d-a strings. The tall ones are on e-b-e strings. Nice angle from nut to tuners. String tree does the job on high strings.