Strap Retention

Discussion in 'Tech-Talk' started by JJ119, Oct 9, 2020.

  1. StratoMutt

    StratoMutt Senior Stratmaster

    Messages:
    3,452
    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2019
    Location:
    SE Pennsylvania
    A cautionary post I try to drop in every time this question arises:

    Just before straplocks were available, my carelessness resulted an injury some 42 years ago. Not once, but twice (on separate occasions) the strap came undone, resulting in the headstock hitting a hard floor. I was a dopey 16 year old ...

    The second time left a mark. Much like an earthquake fault, the wood grain shifted causing a strip of finish to shed, just like a can opener was dragged down the middle. Tectonic plate separation on a micro scale.

    How the Lester survived that is beyond me. The volute maybe? It plays great and stays in tune quite well.

    [​IMG]
     
    RobZ69 likes this.
  2. eclecticsynergy

    eclecticsynergy Senior Stratmaster

    Messages:
    3,173
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2014
    Location:
    NY
    They're also usually available at hardware stores, labeled as faucet washers.
     
    JJ119 likes this.
  3. JJ119

    JJ119 Strat-O-Master

    Age:
    56
    Messages:
    671
    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2020
    Location:
    Mid West
    Ahaahaahaaaa
    :oops:
    Never thought of it like that
     
    eclecticsynergy likes this.
  4. JJ119

    JJ119 Strat-O-Master

    Age:
    56
    Messages:
    671
    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2020
    Location:
    Mid West
    @StratoMutt

    I guess I didn't use the Search function properly.
    My apologies.


    Dayyyaaaammmm!
    That is amazing not to have split completely apart!!
     
    StratoMutt likes this.
  5. StratoMutt

    StratoMutt Senior Stratmaster

    Messages:
    3,452
    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2019
    Location:
    SE Pennsylvania
    Oh, no need to apologize! Certainly not from me.

    That was not my intent by posting the "PSA". I have that post saved into a text file. :whistling:

    It's all good. :)
     
    JJ119 likes this.
  6. StratoMutt

    StratoMutt Senior Stratmaster

    Messages:
    3,452
    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2019
    Location:
    SE Pennsylvania
    Completely would have been the demise of the neck. It was a "flesh wound" or a bit deeper.

    A tech who did a fret leveling two years ago was quite surprised it has not continued to degrade. As experienced as he is, he never saw anything like it. I have been very careful not to drop it again.

    Just like two tectonic plates...
     
    JJ119 likes this.
  7. eclecticsynergy

    eclecticsynergy Senior Stratmaster

    Messages:
    3,173
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2014
    Location:
    NY
    OUCH! Saved by the volute.
     
    JJ119 and StratoMutt like this.
  8. StratoMutt

    StratoMutt Senior Stratmaster

    Messages:
    3,452
    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2019
    Location:
    SE Pennsylvania
    My best and only guess. It is a 10 pound+ guitar (4.7 kg). Gibson headstocks are not known for their strength.
     
    JJ119 likes this.
  9. BuddhaFingas

    BuddhaFingas Strat-O-Master Gold Supporting Member

    Age:
    58
    Messages:
    839
    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2019
    Location:
    Chino Hills, CA
    Fender Washers
     
    rgale and JJ119 like this.
  10. CB91710

    CB91710 No GAS shortage here Double Platinum Supporting Member

    Messages:
    6,269
    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2019
    Location:
    SoCal
    Be careful of the material on soft washers.
    Rubber faucet washers can damage nitro finishes.
    The material that Fender uses for theirs has had reported problems... It's been a few years so I don't recall if the issue is cracking with age, or marring a nitro finish.
     
    JJ119 and soulman969 like this.
  11. Stratbats

    Stratbats Senior Stratmaster

    Age:
    55
    Messages:
    2,524
    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2018
    Location:
    WV
    Ditto.
     
    JJ119 likes this.
  12. soulman969

    soulman969 Senior Stratmaster

    Messages:
    3,203
    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2016
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    I know they work but if just feels odd to have a $3k guitar being held securely on it's end pins by a red rubber washer that costs about 10 cents. :eek:

    Of course consuming the beer first probably does reduce the anxiety. ;) :D
     
    rgale, JJ119 and RobZ69 like this.
  13. TVvoodoo

    TVvoodoo Strat-Talker

    Messages:
    389
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2019
    Location:
    Canada
    I use these... simple, silent, strong.
    (Left, oversize strap button).

    [​IMG]
    And on two of my instruments, these... only the old school folks here will know these.

    [​IMG]

    Disclaimer... I make and sell both products...

    The beer washers, if they are too snug, will actually grip the button and jack the screw loose if you don't watch carefully. I am of the mind that if you can easily fit a strap and one of those washers on a stock button, and feel you need it... that's not a strap end I'd trust too far. Straps I make will not allow a beer washer on the pin. Good thick leather ends won't flop off a pin.

    The rise of the beer washer corresponds exactly with the rise of the 3/4 oz. thickness leather strap end.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2020
    Thrup'ny Bit, soulman969 and JJ119 like this.
  14. Tone Deaf

    Tone Deaf Most Honored Senior Member

    Age:
    69
    Messages:
    6,677
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2009
    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    I have Schallers on my Strat Plus and PRS. A combination of old Schallers and new S-locks.
    Bought a set of Fender Rubbers for my ‘04 American Series but haven’t installed them.

    There a serious issue with using the new Schaller S-locks with PRS guitars.
    If I didn’t have an old set of Schallers, I couldn’t install the S-locks on the PRS.
    PM me if you need this info.
     
    JJ119 likes this.
  15. Pandamasque

    Pandamasque Strat-Talker

    Age:
    37
    Messages:
    253
    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2020
    Location:
    Kyiv, Ukraine
    Will that simple solution work and work reliably and conveniently for those who take the strap off every time they put away a guitar?
     
    JJ119 likes this.
  16. JJ119

    JJ119 Strat-O-Master

    Age:
    56
    Messages:
    671
    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2020
    Location:
    Mid West
    Good word about the rubber washers.
    Never thought about them possibly loosening the pin hardware!

    New Leather straps should be good a while??
     
  17. TVvoodoo

    TVvoodoo Strat-Talker

    Messages:
    389
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2019
    Location:
    Canada
    Depends on the leather. But you have to know your leather a little bit. Goes onto your strap super easy? It can come off with little effort as well.

    Loose pin hardware is not really an issue, unless you let it go, once it starts wiggling a bit, and goes unaddressed, it gets worse and worse. You may tighten it up finally, but because it wiggled around while you weren't watching, you've lost wood inside the hole. If you find yourself retightening, you end up eventually doing doing the old "toothpick and gluethery" routine. A good solid wide strap button and anchoring screw will head all that nonsense off.

    Also many don't understand you can wobble the supplied screw around inside the shaft of most strap buttons - screws are too small, and there is hardly any shaft. This is NOT GOOD! I designed mine to super tight tolerances screw/shaft, no wiggle or wobble, as I'm sure you can figure out why. Plus on mine the screw is longer and larger, which is a mod most serious guitar players or their techs do anyway. Higher end factory straps might get up to 7/8 oz. thick on the ends. I try to make mine typically around 9/10 oz or better. There is a big difference. But also watch. Buffalo leather can be 10 oz thick, but it's very supple and stretchy, can pull off a pin real easy if you make a regular sized hole. I have used it a few times and make sure that I make the button hole a size smaller, and that helps a lot.

    It's like putting 1/4" plywood on a floor, vs. 3/8, 1/2 or best, 3/4 inch. Stability.

    Have a look at your straps, if the ends flop all over, and go on the buttons really easy, suggest you be very careful.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2020
    soulman969 and JJ119 like this.
  18. JJ119

    JJ119 Strat-O-Master

    Age:
    56
    Messages:
    671
    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2020
    Location:
    Mid West
    @TVvoodoo
    these are the pins I have. I don't know if the Jacksons are Stock, but I know the HM Strat is.
    HM Strat

    20201010_173207.jpg

    Jackson DK2 #1
    20201010_172938.jpg

    Jackson DK2 #2
    20201010_173059.jpg

    None of them APPEAR to have Security in mind.

    That Oversize looks more promising.
    The slope is not full length and it looks to have a pretty big top end.
    Screenshot_20201010-174216_Chrome.jpg
    Aaannnd I just noticed it says
    WELL HUNG
    LMAO!!

    I was thinking about a Levy's,
    Walker & William's, and then I remembered Bodean makes them.
    Do you make straps, too? Or the
    Oversize pins?
     
    TVvoodoo likes this.
  19. longboard blues

    longboard blues Senior Stratmaster

    Messages:
    1,639
    Joined:
    May 13, 2019
    Location:
    The People's Republic of Melbourne
    They do for me, yeah.
     
  20. longboard blues

    longboard blues Senior Stratmaster

    Messages:
    1,639
    Joined:
    May 13, 2019
    Location:
    The People's Republic of Melbourne
    But the rubber isn’t in contact with the finish... the strap is in between body and washer..
     
    Blue Beagle likes this.