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The value of honest feedback

Discussion in 'Sidewinders Bar & Grille' started by knh555, May 17, 2017.

  1. knh555

    knh555 Senior Stratmaster

    Dec 6, 2016
    I've done a little collaboration on the board sharing different tracks and jointly contributing to an original tune, but this past week, I got some great advice via PM from @mjark on a track where his only contribution was wonderfully honest feedback. After I posted a possible track for this week's jam, the general consensus was it was a bit too active and already "complete". I didn't entirely agree with that, but no big deal. This is music after all. I decided to complete my tune, jam or no jam.

    I shared it with @mjark. He rightly pointed out the lead was way too dense and reminded me of the value of restraint. I know better, but clearly had lost sight. I want to publicly thank him for pushing me to do better. And that's the point. While I think it's important not to chase other people's ideas for what your music should be, it's also useful to listen to criticism that resonates with your tastes and goals.

    Anyway, here's what I ended up coming up with. It may be too busy for some tastes, not enough for others, and everything I do certainly could be mixed better, but it's a much better product for @mjark's assistance - for simply taking a little time.

    Note that another friend of mine thought my original take was spot on. In the end, I agreed with @mjark and reworked it extensively.

    Thanks @mjark!
    Last edited: May 18, 2017

  2. rolandson

    rolandson Senior Stratmaster

    Can't be measured, only appreciated.
    abnormaltoy and knh555 like this.

  3. fezz parka

    fezz parka Off.... Strat-Talk Supporter

    Apr 21, 2011
    Honest feedback is priceless when the person receiving the feedback is open to it. Kudos to you for having an open mind and listening. FWIW, you are rare. :D
    gofmusic, henderman, 8T_BoCO and 7 others like this.

  4. rolandson

    rolandson Senior Stratmaster

    I was asked once to help a friend with his aspirations of songwriting. I stopped when it became evident that this fellow was unable to differentiate between criticism and critique. Anything other than absolute praise was viewed as a personal attack, to be violently defended.

    That was more work than I was willing to undertake.

  5. fezz parka

    fezz parka Off.... Strat-Talk Supporter

    Apr 21, 2011
    Branford's take on that type (strong, but accurate language in this clip):


  6. abnormaltoy

    abnormaltoy BushBaby Strat-Talk Supporter

    Apr 28, 2013

    Wowee, that is a great (if only because I agree with it) video...saving it and spreading it like the Johnny Appleseed of video.

    Where is the bowing down smiley...thanks!
    s5tuart, fezz parka and FormerTeleGuy like this.

  7. FormerTeleGuy

    FormerTeleGuy Senior Stratmaster

    Nov 17, 2013
    Oak Lawn, IL
    so sad, so waiting for this to go off the rails political.....
    abnormaltoy likes this.

  8. Jason D

    Jason D Senior Stratmaster

    Jan 30, 2016
    Fulton MO
    Being receptive to feedback is huge key to success in this thing we call life. Another key to success is separating the constructive critics from the "blow hards".

    Great things in life are rarely achieved without help from others.
    henderman, alainvey, knh555 and 4 others like this.

  9. mjark

    mjark Senior Stratmaster

    Jul 15, 2015
    Thanks Kevin.
    knh555 likes this.

  10. mshivy

    mshivy Most Honored Senior Member

    Critique is just another persons opinion.

    The Marsalis brothers may be great technicians and historians, but the critique on Wyton is that he has great chops and lacks soul.
    I'm sure the Marsalis brothers would have said the young Cassius Clay couldn't punch and didn't know how to fight.
    Sometimes your "flaws" are what make you unique.

    Louis Armstrong didn't care for Charlie Parker or bebop as a whole- it's a damn good thing Parker didn't listen to his Criticism.
    I'm glad @mjark and @knh555 have a good friendship and rapport -it's nice to hear.
    I would just like to point out that sometimes it's good to follow your own instincts and be yourself-
    Dadocaster and Robins like this.

  11. mjark

    mjark Senior Stratmaster

    Jul 15, 2015
    Well I certainly don't offer my opinions as any kind of expertise or claim any authority whatsoever however, I believe criticism can be valuable and I want it from those I think have expertise. I've found that no matter how hard I might want otherwise, I'm always myself. Points of view from elsewhere can be enlightening.
    knh555, duzie, Pulsar and 3 others like this.

  12. knh555

    knh555 Senior Stratmaster

    Dec 6, 2016
    Bingo. I don't think my original comments involved giving up my own decision-making regarding my music. But different perspectives are just that. Perspectives you get from elsewhere. It's up to the artist to decide what outside influences are useful.

  13. Dadocaster

    Dadocaster Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter

    Last time you posted this, I ended up in the cornfield. :D:D:D:D:D

    (Might have been David that posted it.)
    Last edited: May 22, 2017

  14. mad axe man

    mad axe man Senior Stratmaster

    Jul 23, 2016
    ontario canada
    i think its a great tune with great playing but if i were mixing it i would add alot more compression to the overall kinda sounds like the guitars are fighting each other right now

  15. Ultra91

    Ultra91 Strat-Talk Member

    May 2, 2017
    Tecumseh, OK
    Where this discussion sometimes goes off the rails is over the difference between "opinion" and "evaluation" .. Puppies have opinions. We all do. But opinion at the end of the day doesn't mean squat. Drunks who tell us we are the next Page, Beck, Vai, or Knopfler have an opinion of our ability that is well intentioned but valueless. They are probably not qualified to "evaluate" our abilities in order to form a meaningful "opinion".
    The point is just be aware of who is doing the evaluation so you can determine whether their opinion has merit. The OP trusts the feedback (evaluation) he received. He will not give equal weight to everyone that comments on his work. I hope this made some sense and that I haven't offended anyone..........ya never know these days..
    knh555 likes this.

  16. fezz parka

    fezz parka Off.... Strat-Talk Supporter

    Apr 21, 2011
    Naw, that was me. I agree with Branford 100%.
    Last edited: May 22, 2017

  17. knh555

    knh555 Senior Stratmaster

    Dec 6, 2016
    I do struggle with production and actually agree with your assessment. But I've also listened to this tune too many times recently and need a break from it. This might be a good one for me to step away from and come back to later with fresh ears. Thanks for the feedback. I'll take it from here. ;)

  18. Groovey

    Groovey Senior Stratmaster

    Nov 17, 2016
    NC. USA
    Hoe many times have we heard, "no its nice." "It looks good, on you." Real, honest, criticism is hard to find.

  19. gofmusic

    gofmusic Senior Stratmaster

    Sep 24, 2013
    Honest opinions are vital when making music of your own. I only know 3 people I fully trust on this subject. We agreed that wed always be honest to each other, brutally honest, no filters, thats on damn healthy agreement to have with your music mates.

  20. Sarnodude

    Sarnodude Senior Stratmaster

    Sep 26, 2015
    A generation raised on an unending stream of big lies isn't likely to be able to handle truth.
    fezz parka likes this.