Theory stuff

Discussion in 'Tab & Music Forum' started by Antstrat, Apr 10, 2021.

  1. Bladesg

    Bladesg Funk Meister Silver Member

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    Write out the individual notes of the scale (C) and follow the positioning as shown in your own book there.
     
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  2. Antstrat

    Antstrat Most Honored Senior Member

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    Lightbulb went off.

    I see the 12 notes ABCDEFG much easier now.

    6D625339-707A-4660-97C5-FE6830D3E037.jpeg
     
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  3. Baelzebub

    Baelzebub Dr. Stratster

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    You already have my answer. Just cut out all my blathering from the PM and just check out that link.

    45 minutes for 3 days. You'll tie together a lot of loose ends.
     
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  4. fezz parka

    fezz parka fezz parka

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    Play a Cmaj7 chord. Record it.

    Then play a C major scale over it.

    Same for the rest.

     
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  5. henderman

    henderman Dr. Stratster

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    absolutely understand guitar - a full theory course for music taught on the fretboard of a guitar. 30 one hour dvds and a workbook.

    the guy starts you out at the kindergarten level and then takes you down the path, he makes it so simple it is not even funny, the guy is the best teacher in any subject i have ever encountered.

    but it is not a get rich quick scheme you gotta do the work.

    i have never gotten more for my money and it was only $200.
     
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  6. cranky

    cranky Senior Stratmaster

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    This approach is much clearer on a piano or keyboard if you have one. The linearity is illuminating.

    Otherwise, use Youtube to play a Cmaj or Cmaj7 drone chord and then play the C major scale over it.

    You can do this to help you capture the essence of all kinds of theory stuff. I think the bedrock is (1) know your major scale, (2) know the five pentatonic scale positions, (3) know how the major scale is built into or overlaps with the pentatonic scale, (4) know your relative majors/minors, and (5) know where the notes are on all six strings.

    If you know, for example, that Gmaj and Emin are relative major and minor, then you know the Emin scale simply by virtue of knowing the Gmaj scale. The only difference is the "tonal center".

    And, in my opinion, once you have those five things down pretty good, the other five modes fall into place easily enough. You'll be able to go back to those Youtube drone chords and start experimenting purposefully with harmony and mood.

    A nice supplement to all of this is marrying triads, inversions and CAGED. You'll suddenly see how one chord is already implying any one of several next chords simply by moving a finger or two just so slightly. You'll be able to play interesting chord progressions and barely move your hand.
     
  7. Anacharsis

    Anacharsis Guitar Player Platinum Supporting Member

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    When I have helped people learn theory, I think one of the most useful data points I have provided is this: This is all arbitrary, accidental, and arcane. It is based on centuries' worth of happenstance and convention, much of which has nothing to do with any music you're likely to play (unless you're into Gregorian chants). So don't sweat it not making sense at first.

    For instance: Why are the white keys on the piano the C Major scale? Because back when they decided what note would be "A," people who wrote music used what we now call the minor scale a lot more than the major. And the notes in A Minor are A-B-C-D-E-F-G. The notes in C Major are C-D-E-F-G-A-B - the same notes as A Minor, just starting at a different point, so A Minor is said to be the "relative minor" of C Major. You can actually start or "center" that pattern of steps (one fret on a guitar is called a "half step," while two frets is a "full step") at any point along the line, and the results are other patterns of musically usable notes that are called "modes."

    Another: Back in the day, the notes in a Western musical scale were determined by something called "the harmonic series." That just means that the frequency of every note in a scale was some sort of (not necessarily whole number) multiple of the "root" note of the scale (the one that gives it a name). That's no longer true. Now we have what is called "equal temperament" (specifically 12 tone equal temperament, or 12TET), which is handy in part because guitar would be a real drag without it (fretted instruments have to be tempered tuning, or the frets would have to zig-zag slightly as they go across the neck). Now all notes are a direct multiple of the note "next to" it - an equal proportionate shift in frequency from one note to the next. That makes pianos and normal fretted instruments that are not inherently out of tune when you change keys possible.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2021
  8. pookie613

    pookie613 Strat-O-Master

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    I'm not a sight-reader and I'll be learning until I can't play anymore. I don't know how much knowing the theory helps, but I know that if you want to work in the industry you have to know it, because it's how professional musicians communicate: Bill Rupert (does EHX demos) is a musician/guitarist whom I greatly respect, and he knows all that stuff. I don't think my brain-fingers connection works that fast, so I've rationalized learning by ear.

    My goal has always been to hear in my head what I wanted to play, and be able to do it on the fretboard (a.k.a., "connected"). Rock and Blues were relatively easy for me since the styles incorporate many conventions and cliches (riffs) from a limited selection of notes (scales) that conveniently fit into fretboard "boxes". Early country rock was similar. Practice trains muscle memory with the particular techniques to make it sound competent, and ideally the brain strings all the stuff you've learned together (improvising). Unfortunately, it's easy to get into ruts which mentally takes its toll on your playing (unless you're playing "Free Bird").

    Jazz was alien and harder, and seemed to be the goal of many of the early Rock guitarists. With chromatics, there are so many more note possibilities. Many listened to Wes Montgomery to expand their musical vocabulary. I think that Peter Frampton was fairly successful in incorporating some of that Jazz into a pleasing rock style. Django Reinhardt was also frequently mentioned, but nearly impossible to incorporate unless you wanted to play Gypsy/swing guitar.

    I reasoned that to play it, I needed to hear jazz notes in my head and practice the techniques to be able to do it. I think listening and memorizing trains the brain to hear the "usual" notes (scales) without putting names on them. While I have a rudimentary understanding of chord construction and progressions, my brain doesn't work fast enough to translate between the theoretical and playing. I can hear the key and what notes do and don't fit; I often don't know, but can figure out the name of the key fairly quickly because I memorized fretboard notes long ago: That's translation and I don't rely on that. Practice teaches my fingers the relative location of notes on the fretboard (hopefully). I play chord fragments but I don't know their names: I just know that they fit as passing notes.

    That training has helped me with keyboards: I don't practice keyboard but I have a general notion of what I want to hear and approximately where the notes are.

    Of course, it's not perfect-- I occasionally hear notes that I want to play but don't hit them. (Ooops! That's not something that you'd want to do while performing live, although I did plenty of that when I was in a band.) I think practice and jamming helps with that. It's also slower than dipping into a dazzling collection of memorized and practiced riffs. Riffs show one's physical limitations (I can't/don't try to sound like YJM). They sound good to an audience but they can make me feel like I'm in a plateau'd rut, which affects my playing. Mental attitude is everything.

    So... from this rambling monologue? Study and practice theory and sight-reading if your brain and fingers can handle it. If it can't, don't fret (LOL).
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2021
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  9. fezz parka

    fezz parka fezz parka

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    It all starts with the major scale.
    The seven diatonic modes build chord progressions.


     
  10. JDug

    JDug Strat-O-Master Gold Supporting Member

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    Exactly, and I hate, and was never good at math!

    Theory seems to surgically remove any ounce of fun out of music for me, but then again, I don’t need it because Im not a virtuoso, or get paid to play, that ship sailed a looong time ago!

    Its true, to put it to any use, it has to be quick muscle memory, through years of practice/playing, like a martial artist.

    That takes years and years that I don’ t have alot of time to do, and time left. Pretty much the reason I dropped the guitar in the first place, guitar wasn’t my life I figured out, I wanted to live life and the guitar just compliment it, not the other way around. Now if I was younger and single with no kids, or my kids were grown up, then I would give it a go, but neither is the case.



    So, I think of wanting to learn theory, then I just learn a song I always wanted to play, and it makes me smile, and its, God forbid, fun! I know the chords, just dont ask me what key its in, or what augmented minor major 11 th flat 5 mode it is! Arggh lol (same with sight reading!)

    However good luck, and enjoy doing it, I do honestly wish I knew it, thats why I would never call myself a musician, or a guitar player, really. I just love guitars, and can strum out a few tunes now and then.
     
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  11. StummerJoe

    StummerJoe Senior Stratmaster

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    I don't know theory - it's all fun for me too. It's the HOKEY POKEY man, that's what it's all about!
     
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  12. JDug

    JDug Strat-O-Master Gold Supporting Member

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    LOL!!!!
     
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  13. dublindave8456

    dublindave8456 Senior Stratmaster

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    hi there,
    me butting in again.....
    message no.999
    5.5 weeks off the fags....
    how you doing ?
     
  14. dublindave8456

    dublindave8456 Senior Stratmaster

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    so this is message 1,000 !!
    just for you .....
     
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  15. Antstrat

    Antstrat Most Honored Senior Member

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    Struggling:( Got down to 5 a day then had a spike.

    How'd you handle the withdrawls?
     
  16. kurher

    kurher Strat-Talker

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    Why not take a few lessons from an experienced teacher? As much as everyone here wants to help you with their knowledge and experience there is good chance you might benefit more with an interactive lesson.
     
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  17. jonathanbarton9

    jonathanbarton9 Strat-Talk Member

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    this is great advice
     
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  18. Antstrat

    Antstrat Most Honored Senior Member

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    COVID. I just started lessons from a great teacher, by about the 3rd lesson everything stopped. Now it's online and that doesn't work for me, I need face to face in person. So until things get back to normal if I can learn a few things and get exposure doing it this way.
     
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  19. kurher

    kurher Strat-Talker

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    Have you digested what you've learned in those lessons? Maybe you can share what you've learned and what your questions are, so that you can get some personalized advice and keep going until you can meet your teacher again.
     
  20. dublindave8456

    dublindave8456 Senior Stratmaster

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    have very little signs......

    using champix tablets for 3 months then free....
     
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