Theory stuff

Discussion in 'Tab & Music Forum' started by Antstrat, Apr 10, 2021.

  1. circles

    circles Resident Pinball Enthusiast

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    I shoulda spent a bit more time studying theory over the years, I'm sure Ida gotten a bit further faster.

    tenor.gif
     
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  2. Antstrat

    Antstrat Most Honored Senior Member

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    That is great advice but unfortunately we were just getting into what I knew, where I wanted to go so basically the last lesson was the first of the basics.
     
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  3. kurher

    kurher Strat-Talker

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    Feel free to go through those basics and make those questions.
     
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  4. Antstrat

    Antstrat Most Honored Senior Member

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    The notes for Em7 are E A D.
    The notes for Am7 at the 7th fret are D G C E
    Good?

    Where I’m confused is there are 4 notes for Am7 at the 1st, 2nd, 3rd fret in a chord book I have (C E A G) but the C major scale starts at the 2nd fret on the scale book I’m using. Hope that made sense.

    Made a cheat sheet to learn the notes in rather C major scale, makes it easier to look at one thing instead of having two ****ing books to glance at. :)
     

    Attached Files:

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  5. Bob the builder

    Bob the builder Most Honored Senior Member

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    I took a different approach.
    I didn't try to learn em all at once.
    1st was identify all the e's
    Then the f's, all the f's & so on.
    It was easier for me like that.
    Then I put the scales together by the 1/2 & whole steps to tell me what the notes were
    Then again, I reach behind my azz to scratch my elbow too.
     
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  6. Baelzebub

    Baelzebub Most Honored Senior Member

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    If I recall Ant was taking lessons pre-Covid. That put the kibosh on that.
     
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  7. Baelzebub

    Baelzebub Most Honored Senior Member

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    The C major scale starts anywhere there is a C on the fretboard.
    From there it follows the formula of Whole and Half steps for a major scale as below.
    C D E F G A B C
    __W W H W W W H
     
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  8. Antstrat

    Antstrat Most Honored Senior Member

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    Now that was simple and there I went overthinking! :thumb:
     
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  9. Antstrat

    Antstrat Most Honored Senior Member

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    If you look at my cheat sheet below, looking at the first one at the top:

    C to D whole step
    D to E whole step
    E to F half step,
    Etc.

    I got it down right?

    upload_2021-4-11_20-33-54.jpeg
     
  10. Dadocaster

    Dadocaster Dr. Stratster

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    Not overthinking. In the effort to be able to teach new guitarists to do something quickly, we are not taught some very basic music theory that is easy and makes a big difference. The idea that the note C occurs in many places is one of those things that is not emphasized.
     
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  11. fezz parka

    fezz parka fezz parka

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    No. They are right there in bold in my post.

    Em7 is a four note chord.

    The 1st, 3rd, 5th, and 7th notes in this scale.

    EFGABCD

    EGBD

    Am7...has to have an A in it.

    ABCDEFG.

    ACEG

    Root...third...fifth...seventh.

    Chords are spelled this way. Doesn't matter if the third is on top. Or the fifth.

    Theory lives outside of the fretboard...and the keyboard.
     
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  12. Antstrat

    Antstrat Most Honored Senior Member

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  13. Dadocaster

    Dadocaster Dr. Stratster

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    ....and think about this, it might make you feel better.....

    Since all the notes are everywhere, when you see someone ripping up a fretboard on a solo, or playing all over the place comping chords, they may just be playing the same stuff in different positions.
     
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  14. Antstrat

    Antstrat Most Honored Senior Member

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    I think I got it.
    This confuses me though:

    F major, 4 notes, F C A F (notes on the fret board) FGABCDE. <<<< But if I count 1357 I get F A C E. Where am I ****ing up?
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2021
  15. Baelzebub

    Baelzebub Most Honored Senior Member

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    Yep. Now flat the 3-6&7 (EAB) and you have a Cm- C D Eb F G Ab Bb C which gives you the formula ___________________________________W H W W H W W H
     
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  16. Bladesg

    Bladesg Funk Meister Silver Member

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    You didn’t **** it up except for the chord name. Using the same major scale formula posted above, the F scale is:

    F G A Bb C D E F

    F major has 3 notes (1F, 3A, 5C)
    Fmaj7 has 4 notes (1,3,5 and 7E)
     
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  17. Antstrat

    Antstrat Most Honored Senior Member

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    I was looking at the example below, so when you barre two notes in this case C & F, 1st fret, B & E string you count it as 1 note?

    upload_2021-4-11_22-21-12.png
     
  18. Bladesg

    Bladesg Funk Meister Silver Member

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    No, it’s still a major chord but you’re playing the 1 (F) twice on the e string and D string which is counted a 1.

    You can add the F from the low E string first fret and the B from the A string 3 fret and it’s still a major chord because now you’re playing the 1 three times and the 5 twice. All 6 strings but 3 notes. I hope that makes sense.
     
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  19. Antstrat

    Antstrat Most Honored Senior Member

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    First part clear as a bell, second part I need to chew on. Thanks:)
     
  20. Anacharsis

    Anacharsis No Longer Here Platinum Supporting Member

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    So yeah, guitar chords are, for lack of a better term, kinda janky. They're rather "spread out." It has to do with how the instrument is laid out and how it sounds.

    When you play an open E chord, it contains three Es:
    1. The fattest, low E string open.
    2. The thinnest, high E string open.
    3. The D string on the second fret.
    Those Es are all different. One is the low E, ~82 Hz. The one on the D string is an octave higher (double the frequency). The high E is another octave (double again) higher.

    There are also two Bs (the 5th) and a G# (the 3rd) in there. And you guessed it - one B is an octave above the other.

    Doesn't work that way on a piano. I can finger an E chord that looks like that, but I wouldn't.

    On a guitar, especially an acoustic, it sounds good that way to most listeners. I won't get into my own contrarian point of view on guitar chords, as it will only muddy these particular waters.

    Worse yet, when writing sheet music for guitar, it is common to write those major chords as though they consist of the root (base not - E in my example), its closest 3rd, and its closest 5th - in what looks like a neat, closely nestled stack of notes. Which is totally wrong (and in most cases, actually impossible to play as written), and leaves out notes from common fingerings, but is convenient for the one doing the notation.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2021
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