Tone Concrete!

Discussion in 'Non-Fender S-Type Guitar Forum' started by uncle daddy, Sep 13, 2020.

  1. Dreamdancer

    Dreamdancer Senior Stratmaster

    Messages:
    1,312
    Joined:
    May 1, 2014
    Location:
    Greece
    Iam talking about solid body electrics mate...as for original design i like strats the best thats why i follow that design..if i wanted something else though... i would design it in the computer in something like illustrator or even autocad(1:1 scale) and then give it to a store to make me acrylic templates(centerlines and everything on) so i can make the guitar and easy copies of it in the feature if i wish.
    When i wanted something "original" like my 7 string multiscale scalloped single coil strat...i just made it....not even need for fancy templates...just more time to measure everything.

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Mr. Lumbergh

    Mr. Lumbergh needs you to go ahead and come in on Sunday, too.

    Messages:
    26,424
    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2014
    Location:
    Initech, Inc.
    Seriously, guy? "Pretty much anyone" has a fully-equipped shop with the proper tools and the experience working in it to be comfortable building a complete guitar from bare wood blocks? "Pretty much anyone" owns a router and table, much less knows how to properly set up and use one, design the templates for it? A table saw? A planer? A drill press? "Pretty much anyone" has a spray booth and the know-how to properly prepare and apply a finish? "Pretty much anyone" knows how to properly measure and set the scale length of the neck, frets, and bridge? The tools to install, crown, and finish the frets? A soldering iron?
    And use them all to create something rivaling a custom shop build? Most of the people you know have the tools and experience to do this?
    Please, count all the people that you interact with on the daily and report back the number that do. The notion that it's "Pretty much anyone" is simply preposterous.
     
  3. Dreamdancer

    Dreamdancer Senior Stratmaster

    Messages:
    1,312
    Joined:
    May 1, 2014
    Location:
    Greece
    Yes you can use inferior tools with added time and patience...you can pretty much do without most of the above.Yes pretty much anyone that really wants to build an excellent guitar can....less tool means more elbow grease and more planning..thats all.
     
  4. Mr. Lumbergh

    Mr. Lumbergh needs you to go ahead and come in on Sunday, too.

    Messages:
    26,424
    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2014
    Location:
    Initech, Inc.
    Yes, and you can get an inferior product, too. You're gonna press and laminate your own blank without a planer? Rout the cavity without a router?
    You're not going to get a custom shop quality instrument with a hasp and sandpaper from "Pretty much anyone."
    Heck, I don't even want to know anymore how many people you know have the shop I describe; count all the people that you interact with on the daily and report back the number that have just those two things and know how to use them.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2020
    Chuck8436 and StummerJoe like this.
  5. Dreamdancer

    Dreamdancer Senior Stratmaster

    Messages:
    1,312
    Joined:
    May 1, 2014
    Location:
    Greece
    Inferior in what?Sound? A body cut by hand saws and raps loses its...resonance?Or maybe inferior in finish..cause apparently you cant hand sand and grain fill it till its buttery smooth ready for the finish of your choice...

    There are a couple of tools like a planner for example where you def need them...you can either get woods already planed and ready for lamination or find a local shop that is willing to do that for a small fee...i dont know why you pretend we live in a society that access to tools is a luxury or that you need to have a full set up shop next to your house.When you have finished planning,measuring and measuring again...you can easily find some friend or neighbour to lend you the tools needed for your cuts even if you are not willing to buy them.Yes lets pretend you cant find a shop to make you acrylic templates of your design or a router that pretty much every hardware shop has it....Lets pretend that you cant do the job even with hand drill and forstner bits...

    Every guitarist that played for a while and longs for his own solid body electric instrument made by him yes..he can def do it..cause he knows exactly how his dream instrument should be..that can be easily transfered on paper or on a computer program and after the templates are made its just routing,manual labour and detailing.....and of course many people are not willing to do that....but its one thing to not be willing to do something and another that you cant do it.

    For solid body electrics planning,patience and desire are more than enough to make excellent guitars...for acoustics unless you work as an apprentice for an experience luthier and devote your life on it...just forget about it.
     
  6. =KARMA=

    =KARMA= Senior Stratmaster Gold Supporting Member

    Messages:
    1,212
    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2015
    Location:
    Londinium
    Let us not forget that the guitar after which this forum is named bares the name of Clarence Leo Fender, an inventor who, in the late 1940s, came up with the idea for a mass produced solid body electric guitar - the Broadcaster. This design served as the basis for the Stratocaster, which more or less defines the format for almost every single solid body electric guitar with a bolt on neck that exists today.

    George Fullerton was a machinist, while Leo was an inventor and between them they came up with the design. Neither of them was a luthier much less an expert in guitar building and yet look what they accomplished.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2020
    StummerJoe likes this.
  7. scooteraz

    scooteraz Senior Stratmaster

    Messages:
    1,065
    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2009
    Location:
    Peoria, AZ
    One wonders what the weight of the finished product would have been if the guy in the video had used AirCrete in lieu of regular concrete.
     
    StummerJoe likes this.
  8. GilmourD

    GilmourD Strat-Talker

    Age:
    41
    Messages:
    186
    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2011
    Location:
    Rutherford, NJ
    Somebody should probably suggest that. He still has the mold I imagine.
     
    StummerJoe likes this.
  9. Chuck8436

    Chuck8436 Strat-O-Master

    Messages:
    757
    Joined:
    May 12, 2017
    Location:
    Texas
    I just wanted to point out that guitars were being made long before Leo Fender made his solid body guitars. Electric guitars had been around for decades before that and acoustics for literally centuries. So there were luthiers at that time. And long before then
     
    StummerJoe likes this.
  10. Chuck8436

    Chuck8436 Strat-O-Master

    Messages:
    757
    Joined:
    May 12, 2017
    Location:
    Texas
    I hate to get involved with this because it seems that this argument will never end, but Id say inferior in looks, feel and sound. I have built three guitars with hand tools, because I do not have access to routers or cnc machines or anything and one was alright. The other two were unplayable. And I've seen and played guitars built by amateurs that actually have nice tools and many of them have sucked too. I dont mean to offend you, but while its cool that you built that multi-scale strat, it looks pretty... rough. Maybe it plays like the best guitar on the planet though, I cant tell that by appearance. Its just not really helping your argument that anyone can build a "superior" instrument themselves. Anyway, I'll be leaving now. Just wanted to give my opinion. Which isnt worth anything. And some tools kind of are luxury items. Some can be thousands of dollars. Thats why Lumbergh is saying what he is saying.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2020
    Mr. Lumbergh and StummerJoe like this.
  11. =KARMA=

    =KARMA= Senior Stratmaster Gold Supporting Member

    Messages:
    1,212
    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2015
    Location:
    Londinium
    .....but the point is that they weren’t luthiers, and had no formal training in guitar building, regardless if anything else. It can be done if you have the inclination to do so.
     
  12. Chuck8436

    Chuck8436 Strat-O-Master

    Messages:
    757
    Joined:
    May 12, 2017
    Location:
    Texas
    They being the dudes from Fender? Yeah, I see your point. I was just saying that luthiers did exist in general. I know what you mean though.
     
    StummerJoe likes this.
  13. Dreamdancer

    Dreamdancer Senior Stratmaster

    Messages:
    1,312
    Joined:
    May 1, 2014
    Location:
    Greece
    I posted that pic cause the premise was that building something custom instead of a cookie cutter design was extremely difficult...that guitar basically has squier type parts on, minus the SS frets and the nice tuners.It also has superglue over the paint(instead of lacquer) as an experiment so of course it looks rough cause i would not invest in good parts if i didnt like the 7 string thing(never played a 7 before i built one)....but since i like the neck a lot, it ll eventually get good parts and rerouted for humbuckers plus new finish.

    As for the rest...its easy to make unplayable guitars if you rush into things or dont do your research...a guy for example made a nice lp style guitar out of metal but didnt account for the neck angle and now even small indian tribes can camp under those strings.....if you just make your research during the time you design the thing its very hard to make unplayable guitars....its also cost effective to take your time and dont rush into things....if i know that a friend of mine has a router and a straight bit to make my truss rod channel but wont be in town for the next 4 months...idont have any problem waiting for him to be here so i can ask him for it....i have guitars to play so iam not rushing into things and when you dont and make things after careful planning and at your own leasure and pace, everything becomes easy and affordable.
     
  14. StummerJoe

    StummerJoe Senior Stratmaster

    Age:
    48
    Messages:
    1,764
    Joined:
    May 10, 2020
    Location:
    Washington
    Yeah, and nobody knew how to catch dinner until they did. Some get fat while others are skinny. ;)
     
    Chuck8436 likes this.
  15. Mr. Lumbergh

    Mr. Lumbergh needs you to go ahead and come in on Sunday, too.

    Messages:
    26,424
    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2014
    Location:
    Initech, Inc.
    Yes, but they did have the basic tools and knowledge on how to use them. That takes them out of the "just about everybody" category immediately.
    And as you said, Fullerton was a machinist. That by definition is a very specific set of skills. How many people that you interact with on the daily are skilled at machining? It just further solidifies my point.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2020
    Chuck8436 and StummerJoe like this.
  16. Mr. Lumbergh

    Mr. Lumbergh needs you to go ahead and come in on Sunday, too.

    Messages:
    26,424
    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2014
    Location:
    Initech, Inc.
    You yourself defined the criteria as rivaling the Fender Custom Shop. This is not a personal dig, but the photo you offer as evidence simply doesn't.
    You also said "just about everybody" could do it but still haven't answered my basic question on how many people you know personally possess the tools and know-how. And I certainly can't simply have a friend or neighbor loan me the tools because none of my friends or neighbors has them.
    How many people log in here simply for advice on how to solder in a new pickup or even just set up? A lot more than have a basic working knowledge of woodcraft. If "just about anyone" could do it would there even be demand for those tasks? No. Is a setup or pickup replacement far simpler than a full scratch build? Yes.
    You yourself said "just about anybody" could produce a "custom shop" guitar. Despite your protestations it's painfully obvious that this just simply isn't the case.
    And with that, I'm done arguing with you.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2020
    Chuck8436 and StummerJoe like this.
  17. Seamus OReally

    Seamus OReally Buried alive in the blues Gold Supporting Member

    Age:
    64
    Messages:
    3,204
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2019
    Location:
    Santa Rosa, CA
    To heck with all this arguing: how does it relic?
     
    oyobass, Chuck8436 and StummerJoe like this.
  18. fos1

    fos1 Strat-O-Master Silver Member

    Messages:
    556
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2018
    Location:
    Texas
    An advisor in my youth had to use concrete for the roof of his WW II vintage home due to lack of roofing material availability. He was a brick mason. The house is still standing and in use. I don't think the concrete shingles have ever had to be replaced. ;)
     
  19. =KARMA=

    =KARMA= Senior Stratmaster Gold Supporting Member

    Messages:
    1,212
    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2015
    Location:
    Londinium
    Where’s the facepalm emoji? Where is the facepalm emoji???

    The claim is that you have to be a luthier with lots of experience and have some ‘sacred’ knowledge of guitar building.

    You don’t, and that’s the point.
     
  20. Mr. Lumbergh

    Mr. Lumbergh needs you to go ahead and come in on Sunday, too.

    Messages:
    26,424
    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2014
    Location:
    Initech, Inc.
    Yes, now that you mention it, where is that facepalm emoji?
    The claim I'm actually debating if you'd care to read the thread was that "just about anybody" can produce a "custom shop" level instrument. In your defense of that claim you referred to machinists, who are highly skilled. That isn't "just about anybody" now, is it? It actually serves to refute your point.
    :rolleyes:
    Also, I never said the knowledge was "sacred," did I? Nope, just that one must obtain a level of skill that most do not and will not ever have before doing it successfully.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2020
    Chuck8436 likes this.