"Tone is in the hands" part 2

joebtone

Senior Stratmaster
Silver Member
Jan 26, 2022
2,146
Northwest US
I don't see any of them knobs on my acoustic guitar and am still able to change the tone by applying different playing techniques and positions. On an electric guitar, the knobs do indeed affect the tone but, even on an electric, tone is best affected by playing skill - IMHO.
🫣You thought I was serious?
I’m sorry, that’s why this thread is just so irritating.

You are exactly right, I agree whole heartedly.
 

crankmeister

Most Honored Senior Member
Jul 9, 2020
6,369
Republic of Gilead
Nah. Sorry annoyed by the topic and hit you with collateral snark. Going to close my eyes and hope this all disappears.
Threw your snark in the wrong direction, I say. @dirocyn ain’t a gate keeper. All this tone-in-fingers talk is for gate keepers. You’re punk, you gotta keep the gate keepers in your crosshairs, and I’ll be there with you. Dirocyn had infiltrated and was in the process of getting the arsenic in the water supply.
 

AV59

Senior Stratmaster
Aug 3, 2015
2,963
New York
Sure sounds like Eddie Van Halen to me.


He really gets a kick out of that floating trem.:D

When people say tone is not in the hands, I’m not sure they understand what we are talking about. It seems it always turn into “Who’s on First?” and I don’t wanna be Bud Abbott.
 
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dirocyn

Most Honored Senior Member
Jan 20, 2018
7,001
Murfreesboro, TN
The "sound" of the guitar is not the "tone" of the guitar. Tone is only a characteristic of the guitar's sound. Distortion and high gain are also characteristics of the guitar's sound. Reverb is another characteristic of the guitar's sound. There are other characteristics of a guitar's sound that are affected by processors. Tone can also be affected by a processor but it is best affected by the skill of the guitarist and that is the spirit of the statement, "tone is in the hands".

I find this take really interesting, because I don't understand it at all. If distortion and reverb and other aspects of the sound of the guitar aren't tone, what are they? And what do you mean by tone?

Genuinely curious.
 

tanta07

Senior Stratmaster
Feb 28, 2019
2,350
Colorado
He really gets a kick out of the floating trem.:D

When people say tone is not in the hands, I’m not sure they understand what we are talking about. It’s kinda like explaining “Who’s on First?” I don’t wanna be Bud Abbott.

Yeah that's the biggest frustration with this topic - everyone seems to be working off his own invented definition of "tone."
 

Nokie

Strat-O-Master
Jul 31, 2018
672
91325
I find this take really interesting, because I don't understand it at all. If distortion and reverb and other aspects of the sound of the guitar aren't tone, what are they? And what do you mean by tone?

Genuinely curious standard definition of tone it is described as a characteristic of sound. That is to say it is part of sound but not the entirety of sound.


The aspects you list are part of what make up the "sound" of the guitar. The sounds produced when playing the guitar are made up of many aspects including distortion and reverb, natural and artificial tones, and many other characteristics. Did Eric Johnson title one of his albums "Tones" - implying his sound was tone? Yep, and many others convolute sound with tone just as Leo Fender convoluted tremolo with vibrato. However, tone is only part of so many great guitar sounds. For my money, the best tonal characteristics are produced by skilled fingers.
 

dirocyn

Most Honored Senior Member
Jan 20, 2018
7,001
Murfreesboro, TN
The aspects you list are part of what make up the "sound" of the guitar. The sounds produced when playing the guitar are made up of many aspects including distortion and reverb, natural and artificial tones, and many other characteristics. Did Eric Johnson title one of his albums "Tones" - implying his sound was tone? Yep, and many others convolute sound with tone just as Leo Fender convoluted tremolo with vibrato. However, tone is only part of so many great guitar sounds. For my money, the best tonal characteristics are produced by skilled fingers.
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retrobob

Strat-Talker
Aug 6, 2021
482
california
In the grand scheme of things, you can argue this forever and not change any minds, eventually getting to the point of who cares.

Just play your guitar and enjoy it!
 

Nokie

Strat-O-Master
Jul 31, 2018
672
91325
Tone… is sound.
Well, there are at least two different legitimate geometries - some where parallel lines never meet and others where parallel lines always meet (at infinity for example). Similarly, I can accept two definitions of tone. One where tone is only a characteristic of sound among other characteristics and another where tone and sound are identities. In the "characteristic" definition, it is perfectly acceptable to say that tone comes from the fingers. In the latter definition it is not - but there exists at least one legitimate definition where we accept that tone comes from the fingers.
 

joebtone

Senior Stratmaster
Silver Member
Jan 26, 2022
2,146
Northwest US
Well, there are at least two different legitimate geometries - some where parallel lines never meet and others where parallel lines always meet (at infinity for example). Similarly, I can accept two definitions of tone. One where tone is only a characteristic of sound among other characteristics and another where tone and sound are identities. In the "characteristic" definition, it is perfectly acceptable to say that tone comes from the fingers. In the latter definition it is not - but there exists at least one legitimate definition where we accept that tone comes from the fingers.
You just described the fact that tone is infinite in definition….as is also sound.
My name is joeybtone because only I can have my tone…but I probably just sound like a million others so…..I like it and….who cares!
I don’t know why I put two cents in the thread because it’s really pointless.
 

dirocyn

Most Honored Senior Member
Jan 20, 2018
7,001
Murfreesboro, TN
Ah, so you weren't actually curious - you had a horse in this race!
No, I really am curious, if tone doesn't mean sound, what is it?

Defining tone as "not the sound" contradicts a lot of dictionaries, and I still have no understanding of what this means.
 

Nokie

Strat-O-Master
Jul 31, 2018
672
91325
No, I really am curious, if tone doesn't mean sound, what is it?

Defining tone as "not the sound" contradicts a lot of dictionaries, and I still have no understanding of what this means.
I would only clarify to say tone is not all of sound just as we know that volume is not all of sound - volume is a part of sound. I expect that volume, tone, distortion, reverb and the other parts of sound don't even exist without sound - in the aural setting - but they in themselves are not the complete definition of sound. (I say "in the aural setting" because, for example, volume also refers to a spatial measurement).
 

dirocyn

Most Honored Senior Member
Jan 20, 2018
7,001
Murfreesboro, TN
I would only clarify to say tone is not all of sound just as we know that volume is not all of sound - volume is a part of sound. I expect that volume, tone, distortion, reverb and the other parts of sound don't even exist without sound - in the aural setting - but they in themselves are not the complete definition of sound. (I say "in the aural setting" because, for example, volume also refers to a spatial measurement).

Fine, but what part of the sound? Are you referring to it as only what the tone knob does, or what?

Also, I really think you should look at a dictionary.
 


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