Trolls and Bots

Discussion in 'Sidewinders Bar & Grille' started by davidd47, Aug 22, 2021.

  1. Intune

    Intune Senior Stratmaster

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    Wow now that’s a strange one. The kid had problems is right. I think most of the trolls are pretty much the same. It’s always the same cliche terms over and over.
     
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  2. heltershelton

    heltershelton Vivamus libero Vivamus duris

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  3. pazman6

    pazman6 Senior Stratmaster

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    On the board I mentioned earlier, we had a guy on there named Clifford who is somewhat of a legend in the Baton Rouge area. He was much like the guy vid1900 mentioned above. He replied to every post and created new posts every hour looking for people to play light rock and pop with him. He made all sorts of comments that were somewhat racist. He seemed to have a massive formal knowledge of music. We all felt he was trolling on purpose, but it turned out he was a blind autistic guy (living in his bedroom of his parents house) and it really opened my eyes to what autism was really like for some. I think he had Auspergers Syndrome. He had never played music live with anyone in his life. I hosted a jam for him at my house and a couple other guys participated. He really couldn't play that well, but is musical theory knowledge was pretty amazing and he had perfect pitch. He literally spent 18 hours a day on the board posting stuff and playing his little casio keyboard. He ended up dying 4 years ago yesterday. He messaged me the night before the jam with a note that said: "Make sure your house smells good" - that's it.

    Here is a video we made of the jam - it starts with an cell phone tone in the P which he instantly matches witht he keyboard- we laughed so hard. If was a very surreal experience and he was one of the most fascinating people I have ever come across.

    Like a Prayer from Madonna starts at about 2:15.
     
  4. Sixstringer107

    Sixstringer107 Strat-O-Master

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  5. tery

    tery Dr. Stratster

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    One tends to find what they look for .
     
  6. circles

    circles Resident Pinball Enthusiast

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    Trolls come in ALL shapes, sizes, and etc.

    Bots I don't understand. That is my one weakness.
     
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  7. ukoldgit

    ukoldgit Most Honored Senior Member

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    Nope, but I was thinking of buying one:D
    [​IMG]

    T Roll positioning aid:whistling:
     
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  8. Wound_Up

    Wound_Up CUSTOM USER TITLE Silver Member

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    What's this FB "expirement" you speak of?
     
  9. pookie613

    pookie613 Strat-O-Master

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    Trolls are easy to understand-- they're us (and it doesn't take exceptional brainpower or commitment to master the art of pushing peoples' buttons).

    Bots aren't humans; although they're created by humans, they usually serve a simple purpose: To harvest data. They visit websites and gather content that can be used elsewhere, like images (or email addresses-- not so much anymore since people have wised up, but they will if they come across any). Hacker-designed bots may try to access areas of a website known to have vulnerabilities (WordPress website plugins are a popular target, and lists are sold so wannabe hackers can do it with their turn-key hacker's kit). There's a slim chance that the website or IP address' router can be commandeered and added to a botnet, but as long as there's a chance... Or maybe they'll stumble across a Bitcoin wallet. It's brute force "grab it and go". They don't care how many "404-file not found" errors they get; no egos are bruised, and it costs nothing to come back later to try again. In the real world, it's like the baddies testing your car's or home's doors to see if they're locked. On the Internet, this happens millions of times per second, with no consequences.

    They're like robocallers-- they aren't smart enough to interact with humans or spam-blockers because they don't need to; if they don't get in, they move on to the next number on the list. They'll try again later. Although we may think that bots use AI and machine learning (which could get around spamblockers), why bother unless you're concentrating on a target with a rich payout, or to serve a specific agenda (like a state-sponsored hacking unit)? For the millions of common Internet-exploiters, it's like junk mail advertising: The cost is low and the chance of a payout is low, so it's faster and easier to use simple programs.

    It didn't start out like this. Search engines used to respect a website's "robot.txt" file that told them where not to visit and archive content. Now they ignore it, and some evil crawler bots use it to learn where "the good stuff" is.

    Bot traffic now outnumbers human browsing traffic on the Internet; It's not all what we think of as evil-hacker stuff; Search engines crawl for content, including wannabes that you've never heard of (they too want a share of the advertising dollars); some bots roam the web to check the status of websites (to serve content that draws visitors so they can make money from advertising). Some vendors' bots visit their competition regularly to get data that lets them undercut pricing.

    The bots that visit Strat-Talk mainly harvest pics and data posted here; most Strat-talkers don't care if their pics are re-posted on someone's guitar wiring blog (it's content that attracts visitors that lets them sell advertising).

    FWIW: It's not simply "those Chinese" or "those Russians"! Amazon AWS is more than willing to rent web space to anyone to run bot-hosting operations.

    (I hope that this helps de-mystify bots: This is stuff that I figured out from years of studying website access logs...)
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2021
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  10. Hydr0

    Hydr0 Senior Stratmaster

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    A troll is a person with too much time on their hands trying to get you to waste your time. That’s all they are, wouldn’t even call them a bully, just people who want to waste time getting people to argue without ever accomplishing anything.
     
  11. AxemanVR

    AxemanVR I appreciate, therefore I am... Silver Member

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    `
    Some people throw out the "troll" accusation for every heated argument that goes south. Most of the times they're just dicks, not trolls...


    `
     
  12. pookie613

    pookie613 Strat-O-Master

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    Pssst... Other than the arch human part, most of that is a description of a forum poster! ;)

    (Dagnabbit, to think I could have been doing something productive instead of writing this.)
     
  13. cranky

    cranky Senior Stratmaster

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    Yeah, everyone here is here for the attention basically.

    Trolling is a very specific type of attention-seeking. It speaks to a failure in parenting and care-giving that for most people goes unaddressed their entire life. It just so happens that the Internet came about for most consumers ca. 1998, so it's all been brought to the surface.

    Like, Westborough Baptist is just a bunch of trolls.
     
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  14. AxemanVR

    AxemanVR I appreciate, therefore I am... Silver Member

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    `
    I agree.

    A lot of us can get "overly passionate" about certain things, so it really depends on whether that carries over to everything or if we just lose our cool every now and again (and are mostly quite pleasant otherwise).

    I admit that I can get carried away at times, but I do try to be cordial on the most part.

    A "true troll" is out for a fight most of the time, whereas a dickhead (myself included) only loses it every great once in a while...



    `
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2021
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  15. cranky

    cranky Senior Stratmaster

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    Well, something I learned about myself is that I was compensating for -- or, more properly, I was reflecting -- an upbringing characterized by a blend of neglect by, abuse by, and fear of parents (and other authority figures). It wasn't necessarily about being combative or argumentative; it was just that I clearly had something to prove even though I would never have admitted it. In other words: it's a childish need for attention and validation, but trapped inside an adult. And further still, after a lifetime of getting primarily negative attention or no attention, I was conditioned to basically seek out more of that kind of attention as a form of validation (i.e. "see, world, I told you I was a good for nothing, and now I've proven it"). It's a form of self-alienation and self-sabotage. Anger soothes the ego by appealing to the need to feel righteous. And now re-parenting myself means learning how to make friends all over again.

    Now that I've battled, or am in the midst of battling, my way through that baggage, I feel like I can spot a true troll a mile away. I'm sure the etiology isn't always the same, but the need-to-prove and/or the need-to-misdirect-the-discussion is rooted in environmental failures, not any type or pathology.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2021
  16. davidd47

    davidd47 Strat-Talker

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    Will AI know it is AI or will it think that it is an entity just as important or more important than humans?
    Will AI look at us as just a facilitator like we look at computers now.
    With the new laser tech image projection coming out it might be hard to distinguish one virtual reality from the next.
    Will it matter though?
    The friends that I know in urban areas truly live a large portion of their life inside the VR world of the video screen.
    It is seeping into the rural areas with fiber optics and instead of the usual children playing the hills have gone eerily quiet.
    Yup you got it they are inside streaming movies and playing violent online multi player games.
    Worse than that is when they are trying to figure out what kind of stupid YT video stunt will get the most hits.
    Getting them to do chores or take over the responsibility of a piece of land is not going to happen. Sad to watch.
    Maybe we only deserve a virtual reality.:(
    Considering that we all perceive things differently is proof too me that there is no singularity of reality.
    Only your perception which can be easily manipulated in today's electronic environment.
     
  17. cranky

    cranky Senior Stratmaster

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    Calling out today's tech is kind of a crutch.

    From the moment mass printing became available, people made the same complaints. Same with the automobile, cinema, radio, and then television.

    We are all "natural born cyborgs", as the book says. We're all terminals of the cloud. We're all bots. An interesting debate might be: Which is more dangerous -- humans who don't recognize themselves as bots, or bots that don't recognize themselves as bots?

    But there are moments, events, where we find agency and we create. Perhaps those moments, and the quantity of people who are aware of them, is diminishing. But I honestly doubt that.

    We fail to properly analyze the situation if we neglect the intersecting economic premises. We can't wonder why any of us -- kids or otherwise -- are checking out when it comes to the responsibilities and expenses of land- and home-ownership. Owning and working your own land is totally inefficient, particularly given the prolonged suppression of livable wages and the purchasing power of the USD. The trajectory since the early 1800s has been economic (and political) consolidation into fewer hands alongside a general population population of skilled, semiskilled and unskilled workers/renters. As a matter of being a productive citizenry, there are -- or there is a struggle over -- a reduced quantity and quality of stakeholders.

    Now consider what role tech and bots plays in that process.

    #snowcrash
    #piketty
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2021