Two Caps...same value????

Discussion in 'Tech-Talk' started by jbear, Nov 2, 2014.

  1. jbear

    jbear Strat-Talker

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  2. firebrand

    firebrand Senior Stratmaster

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    It because of the way it is wired. Normally the cap is shared by the second tone pot, not just grounded to it.



    image-1134443432.jpg
     
  3. Highwaystrat

    Highwaystrat Senior Stratmaster

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    Looks like a dual capacitor wiring, but grounded differently, and the bottom pots wire to the switch isnt in the middle lug or resistor.
    Maybe the bridge pickup has its own tone knob and capacitor, with the dual capacitor wiring, it doesnt matter the values of the two caps, I go for around .022 for neck and middle and around .047 for bridge.
     
  4. Teleplayer

    Teleplayer Strat-O-Master

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    The wiring using 2 capacitors is different from a larger single cap. When you select pickups individually (switch in position 1, 2, 3, and 5) you are only using one of the 0.022uF in the circuit. The capacitors add to give a total of 0.044uF when you switch to neck + middle together (switch position 4).

    The capacitor and switch connections have been swapped over on one of the tone controls, but it makes no difference because the pots aren't polarised.
     
  5. jbear

    jbear Strat-Talker

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    Thanks for all of the responses!
    Good info!
     
  6. fumbler

    fumbler PhD-Stratology

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    Well, that's sort of correct but only if you roll off both tone pots the same amount (summing the two capacitances in parallel). If you leave one up and roll the other off then not really. But the added load of both tone pots leaking signal to ground (assuming that neither pot is a no-load) would make the #4 position muddy just like vintage strat wiring.

    I really see no good reason to use 2 caps like this if both caps are the same value.
     
  7. jbear

    jbear Strat-Talker

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    Here's my reality...I always have the tone on10 for neck and middle. I roll the bridge off to around.7.
    Should I just leave it alone...or remove a cap?
     
  8. fumbler

    fumbler PhD-Stratology

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    Removing a cap would not change the way it functions at all except for when you roll both tone pots down, and not much even then.

    Actually, I just took a good look at the switch in your photo and it looks like the rear tone pot is wired to the bridge pickup lug, and the middle tone pot is wired to the neck pickup lug AND jumpered to the middle pickup lug.

    This means that both tone controls are active in the #2 position (bridge/middle). Is that position a bit muddy, even with both pots all the way up?

    You could very easily do the Jimmie Vaughan/Eric Johnson mod by clipping that jumper (first tone pot in positions #5 and 4, rear tone pot on #2 and 1, no tone control on #3). That solves the double-loading in position #2 problem. That's the first thing I would do.

    (Actually, what I would REALLY do is change it to master tone/master volume/bridge-neck blender wiring because I do that to all my strats. But you can't switch directly from a bright neck pickup to a rolled-off bridge pickup without grabbing the tone knob.)
     
  9. jbear

    jbear Strat-Talker

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    So...forgive me as I am a guitarist who likes mess with guitars...as opposed to skilled person who actually knows what they are doing.
    Using the link to the EB ad...Are you saying that I should clip that little bare stretch of wire that runs from the bottom left switch tab to the one just to its right...also on the bottom?
    FYI...here's what the builder emailed me:

    "Dear jbear55,

    Well, many Strats use .022uf caps, especially ones with slightly hotter pickups.
    .022uf and .047uf are purely arbitrary values. It's what they've put in guitars for years, so, that's what people expect to see. Most any value can be used.

    The capacitors value determines the width of the high frequencies sent to ground. The higher the value, the wider the range. Using a smaller value can allow you to use more of your tone pot's range before it turns to mush.

    The reason for only one cap is purely economic. And yes, it allows different values for each tone pot, or, the same for each. It separates the tone pots allowing them to be independent of each other. I like the circuits with a bridge tone to have each pot use its own capacitor. There's no downside to it."
     
  10. fumbler

    fumbler PhD-Stratology

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    The yellow wire from the middle pot, see where it connects to the switch? I'm saying to cut the short, bare jumper that joins that lug to the neighboring lug. That would be the JV/EJ mod.

    NOTE: If either of your tone pots is a no-load pot, don't clip the jumper. You don't need to.

    Not sure why he says "The reason for only one cap is purely economic." The reason for two caps of the same value is . . . what exactly? It's not like a Gibson circuit where the pickups go to the volume and tone pots BEFORE the switch. That DOES require two caps. Strats do not. And "It separates the tone pots allowing them to be independent of each other" is pure hogwash.

    Although I do like the fact that the unused tone pot lugs are covered in heat-shrink. You don't see that every day.
     
  11. jbear

    jbear Strat-Talker

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    Got it...thanks!
    I don't believe either is no load...pretty sure the description would specify...although I'm beginning to wonder.
    It really is a nicely put together harness...just maybe overthought...or under???
    In any case...for $36...it's nice, and I am really grateful for the help!
     
  12. FredC

    FredC Strat-Talker

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    Only 2?

    [​IMG]
     
  13. sjtalon

    sjtalon Senior Stratmaster Silver Member

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    ↑ Grease bucket, different animal.
     
  14. sjtalon

    sjtalon Senior Stratmaster Silver Member

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    + 1, seems like smoke and mirrors
     
  15. JohnDH

    JohnDH Senior Stratmaster

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    In some cases, one reason could be, if you roll both tones down, with a single cap, both pickups that use that cap get now shorted together and sound identical. But this only applies to some wirings, I think normal Strat wiring would not have this issue, where half eth 5 way switch is used to connect and disconnect the tone pots.
     
  16. QReuCk

    QReuCk Strat-Talker

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    Actually the "tone" side of the switch is connected to the PU side of the switch through jumper between the "All" lugs of each side in a normal wiring. So any and each tone pot put in the circuit by the switch on a specific position acts on all PU's that are activated on that position.
    The only logic I can see in having 2 separated caps would be for the different circuit in 2 and 4 positions: instead of having two pots in parallel going to one cap, you have 2 Pot x cap circuits in parallel. This isn't exactly the same (but I can't bother doing the math to explain how different it is).
     
  17. jbear

    jbear Strat-Talker

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    Okay...well...I installed this thing, so here's what's up.
    First...Bourns pots in a US Strat body (in my case) are going to need a little routing...there's a little hump by the #2 tone knob...2-3mm should do it. I'm not gonna deal with it now...unless you can tell me how to get that pickguard off without A) removing the neck or B) removing the neck PUP from the guard. I should've noticed when I was putting it together, but...oh well.
    In Real-life: Sounds phenomenal to me. It really is a lot more versatile than I thought it would be. My favorite set so far for what it was made to do...the Henderson/Landau/Talve tones, and that's expected, but the clarity when I play clean is terrific. Some great Wayne Krantz and Mayer sounds.
    Amps are: Ceriatone OTS/WGS ET65, Winfield (Plexi)/WGS ET65/Judybox Bad Betty, DRRI/WGS ET65, HRDX-stock, Blues Jr. BF mod/CRex.

    I need to play with the PUP heights some more but overall...wow! Very much looking forward to installing the other sets.
    Here's a picture.
     

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  18. viento

    viento New Member!

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    Sorry, I´m a bit late...

    I´m joining in with a problem I have since I bought a set of SSS pickups for
    my new Fender '50 Classic Series Strat MN Surf Green I acquired recently.
    The original pups haven´t pleased me very much so I seized the opportunity
    when I found an attractivly priced set of Fender Ancho Poblano Strat PU Set Ltd pups on ebay.

    They are wired with two caps of different size.
    One .1MFD and one .05MFD on the tone pots.
    I haven´t found the wiring scheme since, only the drawing I attach below.
    [​IMG]

    I mailed Fender yesterday for help but an answer will take some time...if ever...?

    I´d appreciate any proposal or link to solve this prob.with the wiring.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2018
  19. sjtalon

    sjtalon Senior Stratmaster Silver Member

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    The tone pot with the higher value (.1) will make the tone darker faster than the other pot when you turn the knob.

    Usually (most all) strats only have on shared cap so each pot works the same.

    If things get too muddy for you using the .1 you could just wire it so the .05 is used on both.

    .05 is kind of high too, making it pretty aggressive taking the highs out. Up to you though(YOUR GEETAR, YOUR EARS) if they work the way YOU want them to.

    I call the cap a tool the tone pot uses in it job. The higher the value, the faster/darker things will get as you turn the pot from about 6-0.

    It's a player preference thing, do you want a subtle tone change ? I don't use the tone much so like .022 in most everything. Nice thru the sweep.

    On one of my Strats, I took and ran a wire from the tone pots out into the trem block cavity via the
    trem claw ground wire hole. Then used the trem claw for a ground (other cap lead) and tried different
    value caps with test leads on the wire to the tone pot. When you get a winner, tape it up and hide it in
    there (under the trem cover). Then solder it in on the pot next time you do a string
    change.

    Stealthy !!
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2018
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  20. Guitarmageddon

    Guitarmageddon Dr. Stratster

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    Welcome to the forum...

    What are you asking? I don't understand....

    It's very simple to wire using 2 separate tone caps and not joining the 2 tone pots together with a single cap.... the tone pots just hook up to the 5-way like any other method.....
     
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