Value of 56 Strat versus 61 Strat?

[steveokla]

So, assume a 56 Strat and a 61. Both in original condition, nothing too radical done to either-say a refret, maybe a five way. Both very good to good cosmetics.

All things being equal anybody have a guess as to their relative values? I find the Guide doesn’t really seem to reflect what these actually sell for, and the asking prices on Reverb are less than useless. Would appreciate some insights.

 

[sikoniko]

So, assume a 56 Strat and a 61. Both in original condition, nothing too radical done to either-say a refret, maybe a five way. Both very good to good cosmetics.

All things being equal anybody have a guess as to their relative values? I find the Guide doesn’t really seem to reflect what these actually sell for, and the asking prices on Reverb are less than useless. Would appreciate some insights.

speaking in generalities... and it won't directly answer your question.. but something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. so what is your top dollar and are you willing to wait until something shows up or attempt to negotiate to that amount? do you have enough self control to walk away, even if you are only $1000 away from one or the other?

even during the pandemic, and when prices were high, I made an offer.. was willing to walk away.. and after a couple months when the guitar was still for sale, came back with my original offer and we made a deal.

deals pop up if you are patient. if you wait another few months, the economy may crash, and there might be more come to the market, which will drop the prices...

 

[steveokla]

Not really looking at purchasing something in particular at the moment. Just trying to get a sense of the vale of each relative to one another

 

[Nokie]

Quick answer: The '56 is more valuable - all factors regarding original parts and paint held constant.

I'm guessing the number of Strats by the end of '56 was measured in the 1000's and possibly 10's of thousands and by the end of '61 was measured closer to a hundred thousand. With the supply of '60's models so high, that's gonna bring the price down in comparison. Also, '56 is only a couple of years into the production of the most iconic electric guitar in history. The early model has that additional factor in it's mojo.

There are preferences for rosewood v. maple, thick v. thin profile necks, 3-tone burst of the 60's models v. 2-tone burst of the '50's versions that have an effect but not significantly on the supply and demand issue.

Check the online sold items (as opposed to what sellers are asking) for a purdy good idea in answer to your question.

 

[steveokla]

Thanks much. Very helpful.

 

[Bazz Jass]

I'm guessing the number of Strats by the end of '56 was measured in the 1000's and possibly 10's of thousands and by the end of '61 was measured in hundreds of thousands.

Not really, since the the first 100,000 neck plates took until 1963 to use up (after which they had 100,000 L-plates), and they were used for more models than strats.

But yes, they would have been making more strats in 61 than 56. The below chart is useful. Again, not just Stratocasters involved in these production totals.

SERIAL NUMBERS	PRODUCTION DATES
Up to 6.000	1950 to 1954
Up to 10.000	1954 to 1956
10.000s	1955 to 1956
10.000’s to 20.000’s	1957
20.000’s to 30.000’s	1958
30.000’s to 40.000’s	1959
40.000’s to 50.000’s	1960
50.000’s to 70.000’s	1961
60.000’s to 90.000’s	1962
80.000’s to 90.000’s	1963
90.000’s up to L10.000’s	1963
L10.000’s up to L20.000’s	1963
L20.000’s up to L50.000’s	1964

 

[steveokla]

I’ve had the 56 for years. I’ve owned a few round lam Strats but never a slab. I’ve really enjoyed owning the 56 all these years, but would like to have a slab before I drop over. I don’t know how much faith I have in the Guide, but suspect it’s more realistic than Reverb asking prices. I’m looking at a 61 and a 59/60 (innards 59, like pots and such). I usually much prefer the 61 in general because the neck carve is usually fuller and more comfortable than the earlier ones. But the 60 actually has a neck more like a 61, so it’s under consideration.
Thinking of working a trade of some sort.

 

[Frank Roberts]

His and $10K plus or minus for yours. My best guess without research. Check the Vintage Guitar Magazine 2023 Price Guide for the differences.

 

[steveokla]

His and $10K plus or minus for yours. My best guess without research. Check the Vintage Guitar Magazine 2023 Price Guide for the differences.

That sounds pretty close to me.
Per your suggestion I got and checked the guide. Across the range (condition, low to high), it looks like a 56 is consistently around 30% higher than the 60. Thanks

 

[rolandson]

It's called ...

The Official Vintage Guitar Magazine Price Guide

It's compiled by a survey of actual sales prices by reputable dealers and it's available for about $40 on amazon.
They're hard numbers based in reality, not an unknown quantity's opinion.

 

[steveokla]

It's called ...

The Official Vintage Guitar Magazine Price Guide

It's compiled by a survey of actual sales prices by reputable dealers and it's available for about $40 on amazon.
They're hard numbers based in reality, not an unknown quantity's opinion.

Excellent to know! That’s pretty reassuring. Appreciate the info

 

[Frank Roberts]

It's called ...

The Official Vintage Guitar Magazine Price Guide

It's compiled by a survey of actual sales prices by reputable dealers and it's available for about $40 on amazon.
They're hard numbers based in reality, not an unknown quantity's opinion.

I have to respectfully disagree. It is compiled by a survey of the opinions numerous participating vintage instrument dealers across the country. We hope they are objective because they will have to deal with both buyers and sellers aware of the Guide.

However, as an illustration: A number of years ago I contacted a participating dealer located in Florida about purchasing a guitar he had listed. While negotiating, I pointed out his price was significantly higher than the guide. He arrogantly responded, "I don't care what that says; I MAKE the prices!" No Sale. He's still advertising in VG and participating in the survey. I'll not do business with him, ever!

 

[rolandson]

I have to respectfully disagree.

Okay.
Take it up with Vintage Guitar Magazine.

It is a publication that comes out every year and is recognized as authoratative by appraisers and insurance companies and courts.
Their claim is what it is. That the numbers are based on actual sale prices.

Believe them, don't believe them, in the end...
Nothing is worth a nickel more than what someone is willing to pay...or a penny less than what someone else is willing to take.

Sounds to me like there wasn't a meeting of the minds there in Florida. As for "A Florida Man" ...

I did mention something to, the effect of 'the opinion of some unknown quantity.'

 

[Bazz Jass]

At the end of the day, it's the realised prices that dictate the market right?

If the numbers are based on actual sale prices, that's about as good as it gets. Provided it's accurate and comprehensive.

I see some dealers stubbornly adhering to their decided prices for over a decade. Won't budge. Why are these guys in business? Doesn't make sense to me.

I'm in business. If something doesn't move in six months we clearance the crap out of it. Move on...next...

 

[Frank Roberts]

Okay.
Take it up with Vintage Guitar Magazine.

It is a publication that comes out every year and is recognized as authoratative by appraisers and insurance companies and courts.
Their claim is what it is. That the numbers are based on actual sale prices.

Believe them, don't believe them, in the end...
Nothing is worth a nickel more than what someone is willing to pay...or a penny less than what someone else is willing to take.

Sounds to me like there wasn't a meeting of the minds there in Florida. As for "A Florida Man" ...

I did mention something to, the effect of 'the opinion of some unknown quantity.'

You are probably right. I've subscribed for decades. Back in the early eighties my friend was a participating vintage guitar dealer and contributor to their survey. They put out their results printed like a (small) newspaper, (kind of like the George Gruhn listings Bazz Jass has posted here on occasion). Their process of compiling and refining the statistics they gather for each instrument into a single number for each has probably become more sophisticated, as has their glossy publication. And, I should note, I do not dispute their accuracy; that's why I mentioned them in the first place. #8

Peace

 

[Frank Roberts]

I see some dealers stubbornly adhering to their decided prices for over a decade. Won't budge. Why are these guys in business? Doesn't make sense to me.

Sadly, because it works. They can afford to sit on their inventory until a buyer comes along with more Dollars than Sense.

 

[EyeLikeTortoise]

I own a 61, but I would think a similar conditioned 56 would be more valuable. There are probably less of them in existence, and they are closer to the original 54 design. So the supply of 56s is probably lower due to smaller production numbers and more years of attrition. The flipside to this is the demand side which might favor rosewood necks, especially slab-board necks which were only in production for about 3 years (mid59-mid62). If you want a slab-board you only have a 3 year production window. That window also saw the rise of other models that competed with the Strat's production numbers. If you want a maple neck, and aren't picky about the year, you have a 5-6 year production window (54-mid59). They made a lot of maple strats in the 57-59 era before diversifying production to other models (Jazzmasters, Jaguars, Jazz Bass etc) in the early 60s.

If your original question was whether a 58 or 61 is more valuable, I'd lean towards the 61. But 56 is so close to 54 that I give it the edge over a later 50s maple strat. Especially if the 56 had an ash body.

 

[Bern1]

So many variables. Some people like maple, others rosewood. Some like a V neck, others prefer round. Some like ash and some like alder. I think we are going to go to something like parity on these guitars, value wise. There is no “reason” one should be more expensive than the other, other than supply and demand.