Value of this cap?

Discussion in 'Pickup Forum' started by Lonn, Jun 26, 2021.

  1. Wound_Up

    Wound_Up CUSTOM USER TITLE Silver Member

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    Should be the same exact thing thats in your Les Paul you posted the other day, too .022uf

    Edit: wasn't that your Les Paul that you were asking about the pickups and caps in another thread?

    Edit #2: it was. In this thread https://www.strat-talk.com/threads/i-want-to-play-my-les-paul.566972/page-4#post-4381650 and I even posted that 223J means .022uf lol. I thought this thread felt familiar. Lol

    You could go for pots on the high end of the lower tolerance and see if you could get some around the 400k mark to brighten it up. 500k will likely be too bright, IMO. They're super bright on my black Silvertone so I couldn't imagine them on a Tele.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2021
  2. Lonn

    Lonn Mod Admin Staff Member

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    Different guitars.
     
  3. StratUp

    StratUp Senior Stratmaster

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    There can be a little bleeding to the tone cap with a 250K pot as the gate to capacitor. A 500K capacitor will reduce that bleed.

    Does it matter or matter to the ear? Depends on the ear and the guitar. With some pickups, controls, wiring schemes, amps, etc it seems to make no difference at all.

    I wired a guitar with Strat pickups, master vol/tone, .022 cap, and a 250K control. Put the line to the cap on a push-pull so it could be switched out of the circuit completely. Zero difference in the bright side whether it was switched in or not. At least not anything I could hear and my hearing is fairly good per testing.

    That doesn't mean that it never matters. Some setups, it might. You don't know until you try. You can do a cheap test simply by using some jumper wires with 250K & 500K resistors and your chosen (or selection of) tone caps. Wire it up, test the different values, see if it sounds different to you in your particular setup with 250k vs 500k.
     
  4. Guitarmageddon

    Guitarmageddon Dr. Stratster

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    It's the pickups. They are powerful but DARK. Look at the Fender page. 5.4 Henries for the bridge pickup....the higher the inductance the less spanky they sound, more dark, etc....

    https://shop.fender.com/en-US/parts...luxe-drive-telecaster-pickups/0992223000.html

    Typical Strat single coils have half the inductance of that Tele Deluxe Drive bridge pickup....
     
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  5. HazyPurple

    HazyPurple Without stress... my life would be empty Silver Member

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    When you plug a guitar into an amplifier it becomes part of a circuit. The negative pulls the positive through the guitar. The signal is very very small hence the amplifier does all the work.

    Active pickups have a 9v DC battery which provides more current.

    Radio crystal sets, there is no power of any significance in there. The quartz provides the small amount required to power it.
     
  6. Lonn

    Lonn Mod Admin Staff Member

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    Direct from Fender

    "TWANG TIMES 10
    Fender Deluxe Drive Telecaster pickups are supercharged with the highest output of all our single-coil pickups. The pickups' overwound design makes them ideal for high-gain amp settings, but they also deliver classic Telecaster snap when clean.

    This says nothing about "powerful but dark". They don't sound bad at all, just like the tone control is rolled back a little. I'm one of those guys that actually uses the tone control on a guitar and I particularly don't like a Tele to sound like the tone is rolled off. I want CLEAR and BRIGHT. Might need new pickups. The 51 Nocaster pickups in the other Tele are spectacular.
     
  7. StratAlchemist

    StratAlchemist Strat-O-Master

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    Great video Fralin made with a decade box. Explains it all.
     
  8. Lonn

    Lonn Mod Admin Staff Member

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    Might be my ears playing tricks on me but I just swapped in 500k pots and it sure sounds better to me.
     
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  9. StratAlchemist

    StratAlchemist Strat-O-Master

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    i have never tried it, but…
    Volume & Tone FAQs
    What is the difference between 250K & 500K pots?
    Either 250K or 500K pots can be used with any passive pickups however the pot values will affect tone slightly. The rule is: Using higher value pots (500K) will give the guitar a brighter sound and lower value pots (250K) will give the guitar a slightly warmer sound. This is because higher value pots put less of a load on the pickups which prevents treble frequencies from "bleeding" to ground through the pot and being lost. For this reason, guitars with humbuckers like Les Pauls use 500K pots to retain more highs for a slightly brighter tone and guitars with single coils like Stratocasters and Telecasters use 250K pots to add some warmth by slightly reducing the highs. You can also fine tune the sound by changing the pot values regardless of what pot value the guitar originally had.
     
  10. Lonn

    Lonn Mod Admin Staff Member

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    That indeed seems to be the case.
     
  11. FuncleManson

    FuncleManson Strat-Talker

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    I'm not knowledgeable enough to dispute anything here, just curious. I assembled an Esquire and wired it with the Eldred mod using .047 and .0047uF capacitors to achieve the "cocked wah" sound. Why do the caps affect the tone in the front position even though the tone knob isn't engaged?
     
  12. StratAlchemist

    StratAlchemist Strat-O-Master

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    Good to know that it does work. I also read the PRS silver sky has a 300k pot that they then add a resistor to, so they the value falls within a specific range
     
  13. s5tuart

    s5tuart Perfecting time travel since 2525

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  14. StratAlchemist

    StratAlchemist Strat-O-Master

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    As I’m not knowledgeable enough myself to explain, I’ll just copy what I found and you may already have read this yourself before modding your Esquire.
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.premierguitar.com/amp/the-eldred-esquire-wiring-2651078249
     
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  15. FuncleManson

    FuncleManson Strat-Talker

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    Thanks. Yeah, I think that is one of the sources I used. I have no electrical knowledge whatsoever, but I followed the wiring diagram and it worked! It seems that clearly the cap is having some effect despite the tone control being bypassed.
     
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  16. dirocyn

    dirocyn Most Honored Senior Member

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    If you turn a 500k pot down to 50% (around 7.2 on a log pot) it will sound just like the 250k pot turned up. If you can hear a difference between 7 and 10 on a 500k audio taper tone control, you will hear a difference between 250&500k pots. Not everyone can, or believe anyone else can. But the difference is there.
     
  17. BuddhaFingas

    BuddhaFingas Senior Stratmaster Gold Supporting Member

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    Im sorry, but this is incorrect in almost every important respect, after "part of a circuit."

    And the bit about active pickups is half true as far as it goes, but the OP wasnt asking about active guitars.

    The only source of EMF in a standard electric guitar, even when "in circuit," is generated by the pickups due to magnetic field fluctuation.

    The inductance (and other physical characteristics) of the pickup is important to its frequency response. But it is a source, not a load on some other source.

    The amp input is a load, not a source.

    The negative (charge) does not 'pull the positive (charge)'. The positive charge is only and ever the result of a relative lack of electrons (the negative charge carrier, & the only particle which actually 'flows' in electronics) at a specific point due to EMF. A positive charge is essentially an 'electron deficit' or 'electron vacuum'. The positive charge comes from protons, and in normal electronic circuits, they don't move.

    When they DO move... things get pretty exciting.

    And crystal radios are signal-powered. The crystal acts as a rectifier only - it does not provide any power.

    Again, sorry. Not looking to throw rocks. Only concerned with helping people understand.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2021
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  18. Ebidis

    Ebidis Providing the world with flat bends since 1985

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    It is the case. 500k pots will bleed less high frequencies to ground, thus giving a brighter sound. That is why, in most cases, they are used with humbuckers, and 250k pots are used with single coils.
     
  19. Thrup'ny Bit

    Thrup'ny Bit Grand Master Curmudgeon

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    Will you take 50p?
     
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  20. Wound_Up

    Wound_Up CUSTOM USER TITLE Silver Member

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    I know. I was pointing out that they used the same value capacitor, 223J aka .022uf, and that I pointed out the value of that cap in your other thread about your Les Paul.

    Posted previously at the beginning of my post: