vintage tuner mod... slight problem!

Discussion in 'Tech-Talk' started by gcconspiracy, Apr 25, 2009.

  1. gcconspiracy

    gcconspiracy Strat-O-Master

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    well, I just got a set of gotoh vintage slotted tuners for my birthday (which, by the way are absolutely amazing in both form and function!), and I have a slight problem... I drilled the holes, installed the tuners, and dropped in the "10mm conversion bushings", and the bushings were slightly loose (I thought they would kind of squeeze in, but they dropped right in). Anyways, I strung the guitar back up and tuned it, and noticed that the top of the tuner post holes were all visible! It seems that with the added pressure of the string tension, coupled with the slight slop in the bushings, the bushings have pulled just far enough south that I can see the edge of the hole in behind! Does anyone have any ideas as to how I might deal with this issue? For now I have simply put some folded up cardstock around the bushings to compensate for the the lack of tightness; this seems to be working fine (I can no longer see the hole), but is this a safe solution? Is there a more permanent fix?
     
  2. elementlax

    elementlax Senior Stratmaster

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    i dont quite understand.
    do you have any pics?
     
  3. joeybsyc

    joeybsyc Senior Stratmaster

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    I understand. I don't know if this is any more of a "technically correct" way of fixing it than what you did... but if you put just a touch of wood glue or epoxy around each bushing before putting them in, then let it dry FULLY before stringing up the guitar, it'll solve your problems... could potentially be a hassle if you ever want to remove the bushings at a later date, but aside from that, it will work.
     
  4. gcconspiracy

    gcconspiracy Strat-O-Master

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    sorry, I don't have pics... ummm... imagine looking at your guitar with the headstock pointing towards the roof, now imagine the tuner shaft holes being visible on the top (if you have your guitar in the aforementioned position) side of the bushings, just kind of peeking around the edge. Sorry if my descriptive skills leave something to be desired, hope that helped.

    I may just have to give this a try. I don't plan on changing these tuners ever (and if I do, it will simply be with another set of the same, so the bushings would work then too!). Would you suggest woodglue, or crazy glue? I thought crazy glue might work better because it's not just wood involved (though I could be way off on this one).
     
  5. Boris Bubbanov

    Boris Bubbanov Most Honored Senior Member Strat-Talk Supporter

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    Happy Birthday!


    Ok, let's get after this. What kind of guitar neck are we talking about?

    Overseas (Indonesia, China, Korea)? (Squier, SX, Turser, Mitey Mite)

    Or "North American Spec" (USA, Mexico, some Japan)? (Some CIJ models need no conversions at all)

    The first group has 10.5 mm holes, the second group has 10.0 mm (3/8ths) bore holes.

    If the 10.0 mm conversions are loose, 10.5 may work but I dunno where your guitar came from or what it may've been through - there could be an even bigger hole I suppose.

    Stew Mac has the 10.5 size and the local Allparts dealer can get it.
     
  6. Toadlc

    Toadlc Strat-Talker

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    If I understand correctly, the holes are too big and the tuners are pulling down & exposing the holes behind the bushing. You might try putting some kind of shim around the bushing. I would use metal over tape or something soft. It would probably settle and you'd be right back were you started.
     
  7. gcconspiracy

    gcconspiracy Strat-O-Master

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    the neck is off of an indonesian Squier, which, having read your post, I am now sure is the problem! Hopefully I will be able to rectify this without ordering new bushings since I live in Canada, and parts are tough to come by up here!
     
  8. elementlax

    elementlax Senior Stratmaster

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    indonesian squiers are fine, ive got an indonesia squier neck my my strat
     
  9. gcconspiracy

    gcconspiracy Strat-O-Master

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    I think you misunderstand, the neck is fine, but the holes are bigger
     
  10. elementlax

    elementlax Senior Stratmaster

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    well my indonesia has 10mm holes, which according to boris is the same as American
     
  11. Giant

    Giant Senior Stratmaster

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    no one is sayin indonesian guitars suck. he is sayin that his had holes that are bigger than 10mm because he used 10mm bushings, and they are loose in the holes.
     
  12. Afkjinx

    Afkjinx Strat-Talk Member

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    Hi there, had a similar problem a few years ago and used some heatshrink tubing cut to the exact length of the bushing, the heat shrink i used also had an adhesive which when heated got sticky and set when cooled. the great thing about this is that it stopped the heat shrink from crumpling up when the bushing was pressed into the receiving hole.
    If it does crumple dont panic as its easy to remove from the bush with a blade so you can try again. Trial and error with the thickness of the heatshrink tubing worked for me.

    I Hope this helps ;-)
    Afkjinx
     
  13. elementlax

    elementlax Senior Stratmaster

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    i understand that, thats what i just said, that mine has 10mm holes.
     
  14. joeybsyc

    joeybsyc Senior Stratmaster

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    Actually, the BEST thing to use (if you never plan on removing them) is some JB Quick. You can get it at any automotive store, and probably walmart's automotive section...it's about 4 bucks for 2 tubes, epoxy and hardener. Mix up a little and spread a tiny amount around each bushing, slide them in, adjust them exactly where you want them, and let it dry overnight... they WILL NOT ever move...If any oozes out the top simply wipe it off with a wet towel...very easy to use and easy clean up...plus the stuff bonds anything to anything. Put the rest of the JB Quick in your cabinet and I'm SURE you'll find 100 other uses for it within a week.

    I hate crazy glue for everything, and find the only thing it actually works for is sticking your fingers together, which is why everyone thinks its strong... it isn't, and leaves a big, rock hard clump left on whatever it didn't fix. (At least that's always been my experience with the stuff!) Elmers wood glue would probably hold them in place too, but as you mentioned, you're actually bonding metal to wood, so the JB Quick would be the hot ticket. The shrink tubing idea sounds feasible too fwiw.
     
  15. Afkjinx

    Afkjinx Strat-Talk Member

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    I never heard of "JB Quick" so i did a search, found it under the name of "JB Kwick"
    This stuff sounds amazing so im gonna get some for a repair project i need to do as i need to fill and redrill some tremlo holes as the previous owner of a flame body missdrilled them.
    This stuff sounds perfect for the job and a better idea than my heatshrink (tho it did work for me).
    any ways heres what they said about JB Kwick
    How does it work?

    J-B KWIK is packaged in two tubes. One contains liquid steel/epoxy resin, and the other contains hardener. When mixed together in equal portions, a chemical reaction occurs that turns the mixture into a compound as hard and tough as steel -- and with similar properties.

    Because J-B KWIK cures so fast, it's not as strong or as heat-resistant as the original J-B WELD. For typical household maintenance and repairs, however, it's just about perfect. Many happy customers have told us they were finally able to repair annoying things around their homes when, for years, nothing else worked. We think you'll find J-B KWIK as magical and practical in your home, too.
    Properties (psi)
    Tensile Strength: 2100
    Adhesion: 1800
    Flex Strength: 7320
    Tensile Lap Shear: 1040
    Shrinkage: 0.0%
    Resistant to: 300° F
    How to use it:

    Use J-B KWIK as an adhesive, laminate, plug, filler, sealant, and electrical insulator. Squeeze out equal portions from the black and orange tubes. Mix thoroughly. Clean surface to be bonded. Apply J-B KWIK, and let it cure. That's all there is to it!

    Like metal, J-B KWIK can be formed, drilled, ground, tapped, machined, filled, sanded, and painted. It stays pliable for about 2 minutes after mixing, sets in just 4 minutes, and cures fully in 4 hours. It's water-proof, petroleum-, chemical-, and acid-resistent; resists shock, vibration, and extreme temperature fluctuations, and withstands temperatures up to 300° F. J-B KWIK is super strong, non-toxic, and safe to use. Before it sets, you can clean up with soap and water. (print instruction sheet)

    Thanks Joeybsyc. I can see many uses and im gonna getsome kwick ;-)
    Kindest Regards
    Afkjinx
     
  16. xen_

    xen_ Strat-Talker

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    Same thing happened to me last night as a matter of fact. As has been pointed out the holes measure 10.50mm, even thought the stock tuners are 10mm. I decided on glue, but I note that StewMac now stock 10.5mm conversions bushings (they didn't a few weeks ago when I ordered), which taper from 10.03 mm to 10.54mm. I would think this would be the preferred option.

    My problems didn't end there as the pointy bits on the 6th string tuner didn't quite fit on the headstock :rolleyes:

    I never got to sting the up with the glue (which takes 48hrs to achieve maximum hardness) so I don't know how this fudge would work. I took them out and put the stock ones back in because of another problem ... I got bitten by the infamous narrow Affinity body when I went to replace the trem. :cry: (I was going chrome->gold so leaving gold tuners in that don't 100% fit makes no sense.) Guess that means I'm going to get the replacement body before the neck now. :)
     
  17. joeybsyc

    joeybsyc Senior Stratmaster

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    The easy fix for that is to simply flat file the backside of the block until it fits inside the tremolo cavity and you can put the cover on.
     
  18. xen_

    xen_ Strat-Talker

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    Good tip. Yeah why not, there is nothing functional that would be lost after all.

    Since I'm intent on replacing the body in any case, I wonder if I shouldn't instead show some patience ...
     
  19. Lowdown

    Lowdown Strat-Talker

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    Gaffa-Tape! Don't laugh.
    Solves everything.And if you ever want to take them out,no worries there either.
    I always err on the side of anything going in permanently.At some stage,you're always bound to want to take it out again.
     
  20. asc67

    asc67 Senior Stratmaster

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    The standard Luthiers trick for this is to build up the inside of the hole with a coat of wood glue or super glue will work as well. Let the glue dry check for fit, if the bushings are still loose apply a second coat let dry and check again. A Q-tip works good for applying the glue.