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Wax on, Wax off approach to learning

Discussion in 'Sidewinders Bar & Grille' started by alderre, Dec 5, 2017.

  1. alderre

    alderre Strat-O-Master

    530
    May 1, 2014
    New Braunfels
    Ok so I am fairly happy with my progress.

    I can now find all notes on fretboard within 2 seconds each. I am comfortable with the shapes of the scales etc.

    I would like to learn a song that is secretly teaching me loads of things.

    Any suggestions on a popular song that includes maybe chords and licks that maybe go from major to minor at points?

    I am considering Little Wing.

    Any ideas? Thanks in advance
     
    Count Glockula® likes this.

  2. thomquietwolf

    thomquietwolf Senior Stratmaster Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    76
    Dec 2, 2010
    Peardale CA
    Geeez
    I'm way behind you
    And
    And
    Was hoping you'd get some secret input.
    I'm guessing...
    @simoncroft will come to your rescue...
     
    Omar and s5tuart like this.

  3. stratomatt

    stratomatt Strat-Talk Member

    20
    Sep 23, 2010
    San Diego
    Greetings Alderre, Here is what has helped me a bit: 1) Jazz Standards. Get a "Real Book" and pick out a song or two that you enjoy and try to dissect it. This is wax on wax off for sure. 2) I found a course on Udemy called "Music Theory #1- Circle of 5ths Master Class" taught by a lady named Rosa Suen. She's a piano teacher. Wait until the course goes on sale for $10 or $15. It is amazing and well worth the price (IMHO of course). From this course I learned how to "harmonize" all of the chords that fit into a particular key, and she also goes into chord progressions a little. Little Wing is a great song for sure! I think Wind Cries Mary is a little bit easier and allows for more of your own fills and embellishments without losing the feeling of the song.
     

  4. conehead

    conehead Strat-Talker

    Age:
    46
    302
    Apr 12, 2017
    way out there
    Any simple cycle-of-fifths pre-bebop-era jazz standard will not-so-secretly teach you a whole lot of things, chordal, scalar, harmonic, and conceptual.

    The happiest I ever was with my progress was when I was taking structured lessons with a great teacher, and an isolated few times on my own since then when I was re-applying concepts my teacher had taught me in new ways, years later.
     

  5. alderre

    alderre Strat-O-Master

    530
    May 1, 2014
    New Braunfels
    Thank you for this. Definitely looking into it.
     

  6. alderre

    alderre Strat-O-Master

    530
    May 1, 2014
    New Braunfels
    Circle of fifths... Never took the time to learn it. It is time. Thanks!
     

  7. stratomatt

    stratomatt Strat-Talk Member

    20
    Sep 23, 2010
    San Diego
    What I'm finding after starting to lean this stuff is it bring more questions, but the original stuff you have questions about makes more sense. It's a rabbit hole man!
     
    s5tuart and alderre like this.

  8. Cuban

    Cuban Strat-Talker

    102
    Mar 18, 2017
    UK
    Sultans of swing I think is a great song to learn for Chords with licks.
    I have enjoyed learning it, but still can not play the fast ending......one day i will!
     
    alderre likes this.

  9. Guy Named Sue

    Guy Named Sue Beer me up Scotty Strat-Talk Supporter

    Feb 11, 2015
    Sweden

  10. fezz parka

    fezz parka The Wiggler of Sticks Strat-Talk Supporter

    Learn standards
    ii-V-I
    I-vi-ii-V
    iii-VI-ii-V
    Circle progressions.

    Major Circle chord progression: I-IV-vii*-iii-vi-ii-V-I.

    In C: Cmaj7-Fmaj7-Bm7b5-Em7-Am7-Dm7-G7-Cmaj7.

    The Minor Circle progression is this: i-iv-VII-III-VI-ii*-V-i.

    In A (relative minor to C major): Am7-Dm7-G7-Cmaj7-Fmaj7-Bm7b5-E7-Am7 (Fly Me To The Moon, Gary Moore's Still Got The Blues, Suicide is Painless, and about a hundred other tunes)

    Example (my Fly Me To The Moon, Suicide Is Painless mashup.




    So, a ii-V-I (Major Circle Progression) in C would be Dm7-G7-Cmaj7.
    A ii*-V-i (Minor Circle Progression)in Am would be Bm7b5-E7-Am7.
     

  11. simoncroft

    simoncroft Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    61
    May 30, 2013
    SE England
    @alderre – If you are interested in songs that transition from major to minor within the same key, the blues is a great place to start. The I chord is usually a 7th (technically a Dominant 7th, rather than a Major 7th), meaning the best fit is a major scale with a flattened (Dominant) 7th. The IV chord is normally also a Dominant 7th, meaning its flattened 7th is the minor 3rd of the key. Learn to modulate effectively between that major and minor 3rd, and you will start to understand to building blocks of a blues solo.

    That leaves us with the V chord. If you're following the logic of this, a Dominant 7th here implies the original key now uses a completely major scale - ie the 7th is no longer flattened. One effective approach is to repeat motifs you used at the start but in the V key.

    A completely scale-based approach to blues solos can lead to some slightly sterile results. There's some nice playing on the week's Jam 65, and you're very welcome to join in:

    https://www.strat-talk.com/threads/jam-65-–-bb-king-style-in-c.456901/

    Disclaimer: @fezz parka posted while I was writing. Trust his analysis over mine. He's a seasoned pro. Then join in the Jam if you'd like to. :D
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2017
    Omar, Stark and fezz parka like this.

  12. alderre

    alderre Strat-O-Master

    530
    May 1, 2014
    New Braunfels
    Nice, thank you
     

  13. alderre

    alderre Strat-O-Master

    530
    May 1, 2014
    New Braunfels
    Thank you for the examples. This really is exciting. :)
     

  14. alderre

    alderre Strat-O-Master

    530
    May 1, 2014
    New Braunfels
    I’ve never joined one of these jams... need to
     

  15. thomquietwolf

    thomquietwolf Senior Stratmaster Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    76
    Dec 2, 2010
    Peardale CA
    Ich bin sehr dunkle...
    Aber
    And
    Uhhhh...
    Splain the wax o wax off theorems...
    Bitte...
     
    Omar likes this.

  16. Vjerilood

    Vjerilood Strat-O-Master

    Age:
    52
    680
    Jul 30, 2017
    USA
    How’s your rhythm? Master of Puppets.
     

  17. dueducs

    dueducs Senior Stratmaster

    Hey Joe might be a good lesson in Circle of fifths use- any Hendrix rhythm stuff really-Little Wing seems perfect to meet your request. Also check out John Mayer, Steve Cropper, and SRV. Can you tell where my main influences lie? LOL.
    Sounds like a good plan. Wish I had the motivation and time to pursue this myself. Break a leg.
     

  18. Swampash

    Swampash Senior Stratmaster

    Jun 13, 2012
    Here
    Can you read music? If not, start learning.
     
    rich815 likes this.

  19. alderre

    alderre Strat-O-Master

    530
    May 1, 2014
    New Braunfels
    Like a kindergardener can read words
     

  20. fezz parka

    fezz parka The Wiggler of Sticks Strat-Talk Supporter

    For the minor to major thing, think George Harrison. While My Gutar Gently Weeps and Something come to mind.

    Myagi was building Daniel's muscle memory with sand the floor, paint the fence, and wax on/wax off. Then he taught him the data, how and when to use it. You can't have one without the other. :D

    The circle progressions are called that because...they follow the circle of fifths. No better place to learn it. ;)
     
    dogletnoir likes this.