What do you call a vintage reissue that is now old enough to be a vintage guitar in itself?

Nokie

Strat-O-Master
Jul 31, 2018
712
91325
They will always be reissues in my mind with no consideration of vintage value. Vintage is not just a function of how many years have gone by but how little "executive decision" was involved in cutting costs or streamlining production. And if computer program was involved in the manufacturing of a Strat - that ain't vintage (It'll be funny in future years when folks will consider the early computer build processes as vintage - I guess that's sorta the case now with early synth guitars). I far prefer new reissues to old reissues in cases where better care has been used to more closely recreate the original guitars. Even an '80's reissue is gonna have the stigma of "reissue" so go for a good new one
 

Scott Baxendale

Most Honored Senior Member
Silver Member
May 20, 2020
7,458
Sante Fe, NM
Not making me think oh my only the first is original?

Original maker in the original era is original, and any maker of multiple pieces of the thing they make is still the original maker of the original product.

Stickley furniture was established in 1883 and all the furniture the original company run by the original founder designer maker is the original vintage product.
Since then other companies copied the stuff, copies are not original.
Like Fender, the company was sold and later just the name was sold.
So one is better off arguing that a brand name sold to an investment firm which makes nothing at all, and contracts out foreign manufactue, is not original.
When FMIC bought the brand and "shapes", they got no factory or workforce.

Much like D'Angelico now, a brand name and guitar shape is reproduced by an entirely new company, no worker maker designer lineage.

One could better argue that the Fender guitars made after FMIC took over are really not Fender guitars at all, because all FMIC bougt was brand names and outline shapes.
FMIC has nothing Fender except drawings of shapes, so one could argue that they really make reproductions of Fender products.
Like Tokai and Fufigen made copies then Fender got them to make and sell copies with the Fender logo.
Reproductions, because: no longer original maker.

Compared to arguing that after the first Jazzmaster rolled off the line all the rest were reproductions of the first one?

Today we can buy all sorts of brand name products like Stickley furniture, D'Angelico guitars, MXR pedals, where the company that "makes" the products is just putting some other makers brand name on their own new products.

Original designer maker during the original era is original.
Antonio Stradivari made lots of violins, all the violins he made were and are original Strads.
Then his family made more violins, and those are original Strads though one should note that they are not the original designer maker, instead being family makers trained by the original maker.

FMIC basically started over using modern factory methods and hiring a few former workers. But the line was broken, FMIC is arguably not Fender.
Even the much maligned CBS started off with original designer maker Leo working in their operation and guiding their taking over the same production lines, staff, parts suppliers, jigs and templates etc.

Noting that what we think of today as "the Fender sound" is the BF reverb amps which were designed by Leo but almost all made by CBS owned Fender.
So is a 1965 Twin Reverb a reissue?

My sense of reissues is that require the product to have ceased production, then after not being made for some time, getting reissued due to market interest in older discontinued products.
Well put!
 

Quikstyl

Strat-O-Master
Nov 10, 2018
726
Bay Area, CA
This beautiful guitar was featured in another post. My question is: what do you call a vintage reissue that is now old enough to itself be considered a vintage guitar? Is it a Double Vintage? Or a V-Vintage, or a Vintage-vintage, or what?

Also, How many years old does a guitar have to be before it’s considered ‘vintage’? In 1978 we sold guitars made in 1958 as vintage, but I hardly think a guitar made in 1993, let alone 2003 is a vintage guitar now.

This seems like a new sub category for guitars that needs a good name.

View attachment 610425
Pre-CBS. Either that or my '82 American hardtail and my '89 HM are vintage Strats.
 

Butcher of Strats

Senior Stratmaster
Feb 28, 2022
3,867
Maine
Pre-CBS. Either that or my '82 American hardtail and my '89 HM are vintage Strats.
Just remembered we see a clear pattern of certain last Century MIK Epi guitars being valued higher than the new same models sell for at retail, like the Casino I have seen valued much higher.
That would be "a desirable vintage".

An '89 MIJ is a little late IMO but not by much.
Say an '82 MIJ Tokai IS a vintage guitar!
 

Jorbissian

Strat-Talk Member
Aug 13, 2022
26
Melbourne Australia
I think it's now an "antique", in the automobile game a car over 50 years old is an "antique", vintage is between 25 - 50 years, this is what I was told. Antique is a cool description I reckon.
This beautiful guitar was featured in another post. My question is: what do you call a vintage reissue that is now old enough to itself be considered a vintage guitar? Is it a Double Vintage? Or a V-Vintage, or a Vintage-vintage, or what?

Also, How many years old does a guitar have to be before it’s considered ‘vintage’? In 1978 we sold guitars made in 1958 as vintage, but I hardly think a guitar made in 1993, let alone 2003 is a vintage guitar now.

This seems like a new sub category for guitars that needs a good
 

Quikstyl

Strat-O-Master
Nov 10, 2018
726
Bay Area, CA
Just remembered we see a clear pattern of certain last Century MIK Epi guitars being valued higher than the new same models sell for at retail, like the Casino I have seen valued much higher.
That would be "a desirable vintage".

An '89 MIJ is a little late IMO but not by much.
Say an '82 MIJ Tokai IS a vintage guitar!

Just remembered we see a clear pattern of certain last Century MIK Epi guitars being valued higher than the new same models sell for at retail, like the Casino I have seen valued much higher.
That would be "a desirable vintage".

An '89 MIJ is a little late IMO but not by much.
Say an '82 MIJ Tokai IS a vintage guitar!
What about an '89 assembled in the US with Japanese parts? Is it semi-vintage?
 

stratman323

Dr. Stratster
Apr 21, 2010
39,443
London, UK
I far prefer new reissues to old reissues in cases where better care has been used to more closely recreate the original guitars. Even an '80's reissue is gonna have the stigma of "reissue" so go for a good new one

So in your mind there is a "stigma" to owning one of the earliest reissues? The reason? You don't like them as much?

😆

This place is ridiculous...
 

Nokie

Strat-O-Master
Jul 31, 2018
712
91325
So in your mind there is a "stigma" to owning one of the earliest reissues? The reason? You don't like them as much?

😆

This place is ridiculous...
I didn't say stigma for owning one of the earliest reissues. I said stigma of "reissue". It can be old or new.
 

GratefulDean

Strat-Talker
Jan 27, 2020
100
Colorado
This beautiful guitar was featured in another post. My question is: what do you call a vintage reissue that is now old enough to itself be considered a vintage guitar? Is it a Double Vintage? Or a V-Vintage, or a Vintage-vintage, or what?

Also, How many years old does a guitar have to be before it’s considered ‘vintage’? In 1978 we sold guitars made in 1958 as vintage, but I hardly think a guitar made in 1993, let alone 2003 is a vintage guitar now.

This seems like a new sub category for guitars that needs a good name.

View attachment 610425
Double Secret Vintage
 

Wrighty

Dr. Stratster
Mar 7, 2013
12,129
Harlow, Essex, UK
In the car world vintage is defined as 1918-1930. Post- vintage 1931 to 1975. The first vehicle acknowledged as a petrol driven car was an 1886 Benz. Therefore, anything made up until the product’s 44th birthday could be vintage. If we accept the ‘frying pan’ of 1931 as the first solid body electric guitar, then any guitar made before 1975 could be described as vintage. As an aside, isn’t it interesting how little guitars evolved in comparison to cars in the first 44 years?
 

Scott Baxendale

Most Honored Senior Member
Silver Member
May 20, 2020
7,458
Sante Fe, NM
They will always be reissues in my mind with no consideration of vintage value. Vintage is not just a function of how many years have gone by but how little "executive decision" was involved in cutting costs or streamlining production. And if computer program was involved in the manufacturing of a Strat - that ain't vintage (It'll be funny in future years when folks will consider the early computer build processes as vintage - I guess that's sorta the case now with early synth guitars). I far prefer new reissues to old reissues in cases where better care has been used to more closely recreate the original guitars. Even an '80's reissue is gonna have the stigma of "reissue" so go for a good new one
The Peavy T60, T40 Bess, and T-15 were the first guitars built with computer controlled machines, over 40 years ago.
 

Nokie

Strat-O-Master
Jul 31, 2018
712
91325
Leave it to Hartley. Smart guy.
Indeed, it's interesting to hear how far back the computer process was involved. 40+ years ago puts such guitars in the early 80's or late 70's - the days where many folks, myself included, say "that ain't vintage". But it is fun to ponder that, in the 70's, a guitar that was 40 years old couldn't have even been a Fender - it would have been a vintage Martin, Gibson, or other model. To hear the computer process began 40+ years ago adds weight to the notion that it is not there number of years that makes the guitar vintage but from what era the guitar was made.
 


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