What's the deal with treble bleed ciruits for vol. roll off?

Discussion in 'Stratocaster Discussion Forum' started by JonnyBGood, Jan 20, 2021.

  1. charlie chitlin

    charlie chitlin Strat-O-Master Silver Member

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    Treble bleed depends on several things known as, "I don't know what they are".
    Some guitars it works great, others, I can't wait to get it out.
    Unfortunately, the one I can think of that totally didn't work was an archtop.
    Now, I just move the cap to the center lug.
    This, too, has ramifications on certain guitars.
     
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  2. Voxman

    Voxman Strat-Talk Member

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    Treble bleed worked great for me other than with fuzz.
    It took a couple of tries with resistor and cap values to get it spot on.
    At extremely low volumes a treble bleed gets brighter.
    For the most part I use the volume control to vary the amount of dirt when I am playing with fuzz/od/distortion.
     
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  3. weavzy

    weavzy Strat-Talk Member

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    Ive got a CS black maple neck 68 strat. Its obviously marketed heavily towards Hendrix fans. Its got a treble bleed on it. AlthoufgI havent removed it, it doesnt work well with Fuzz, which most Jimi style players use. Its a strange choice from fender.

    I'll probably chop it out oneday. But for now, I put up with it.
     
  4. JohnDH

    JohnDH Senior Stratmaster

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    Imaginary?? No its real. Losing treble as you roll down volume is a fact and its nothing to do with amp gain or hearing or anything else other than basic science and electrical characteristics.

    But it doesn't mean it's a problem. For many its not noticeable, or they like the effect of a more muted tone at lower volume. But it you find it to be a problem, the right TB design can fix it pretty well.
     
  5. gitapik

    gitapik Strat-Talker Gold Supporting Member

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    If you place a volume pedal after your compressor and distortion/overdrive, you’ll retain all of your gain and treble when you adjust the volume.

    That way, you’ve still got the benefit of softening and cleaning up the tone when you use the guitar’s volume knob. And you can lower just the volume but not the edge and hair when you use the volume pedal.
     
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  6. Richard McKay

    Richard McKay Strat-Talk Member

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    I have it in my SSS and in my HH. I usually play with the volume wide open but sometimes I'll dial it back to sit in the mix better. I can keep the same tone which is what I want. Also, I use the "violin" technique with my pinky on some solos and it keeps the tone consistent. If I used fuzz, I might have a different opinion. Costs about a dollar or less to try. Easy to snip out if you don't like it. Test it for yourself.
     
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  7. rafasounds

    rafasounds Senior Stratmaster

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    I had it in a Strat a long time ago. Didn't like it. I thought the sound became too tinny when I rolled the volume off. I like the treble loss when turning down the volume. It's supposed to be darker, milder, less noticeable, in my opinion.

    I tried the 50's wiring on my Tele and also disliked it because there was a weird interaction between volume and tone pots. You could not use both at the same time.

    Especially with a fuzz, when it's on and you turn the volume knob down, in my experience I found it to give an anemic sound.
     
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  8. Ronkirn

    Ronkirn Most Honored Senior Member

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    Maybe someone's 'splained it above but if not...

    there are two primary factors in play that suggest the bleed circuit is appropriate..

    The first is.. as volume decreases, the human hearing detects higher frequencies with less acuity equal to that when the volume is as a higher sound pressure level.. so.. turn any thing down.. you will hear less airiness, articulation, less cut through the mix qualities.. the treble bleed circuit can reduce that phenomena..

    The second is the pot just naturally "cuts" highs as the signal flow through it... the more resistance dialed in by turning the knob, the more highs are lost... the blender circuit is a high pass filter.. thus it works to reduce that effect...

    Now.. since all guitars are different.. the way in which the bleeder reacts with the guitar's voice is different... so some will not like the sound they hear.. a quick clip with the wire snips and that's taken care of..

    r
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2021
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  9. soulman969

    soulman969 Senior Stratmaster

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    Only in adding to what Ron posted I prefer to use them where it's beneficial to that specific guitar and my way of playing.

    I prefer to retain my tone when I reduce volume and use lower value tone caps to obtain more subtle tone adjustments from my tone controls.

    That way I don't needs the subtle loss of highs I'd get from a volume pot without a treble bleed. The tone pot can handle that.
     
  10. keys88

    keys88 Strat-Talker

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    I can get away without a treble bleed on a Strat or Tele but I notice a much bigger difference on some other guitars. I just put one in a homemade double p90 guitar and the volume knob acts like a gain knob now. The tone of the note is mostly the same throughout the sweep, it just drives the amp harder as I roll up the volume. At super low volumes it sounds a little thin, but I'm never really playing it that low. And I could always just roll back the tone knob if I needed to. Seems like a minimal compromise for the advantage it gives.
     
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  11. AcousticalDK

    AcousticalDK New Member!

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    I just modded my first strat, changed the noiseless pups and put in a treble bleed on a push pull pot and love it! Usually engaged, exception being what pedals I'm using
     
  12. metrokosmiko

    metrokosmiko Strat-Talk Member

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    Because this way it becomes a premium on higher priced models and 'justifies' the lower/higher price.

    Most guitar buyers are clueless and usually won't know how to install a treble bleed themselves.

    There is really no reason not to have one. It's the only way for a volume control to properly act like one.
     
  13. Ronkirn

    Ronkirn Most Honored Senior Member

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    getcha one of these.... so that takes the "what value do I use" quandary out of the equation.... install it.. it's dirt simple. That way the only question remaining is do ya like it, or not..

    for under 20 bux you actually, really know... isn't that worth something?

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N0RQ2Q9/?tag=strattalk05-20

    r
     
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  14. MartinC

    MartinC Strat-Talker

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    Well the electronics experts will tell us it is all the traditionalist guitarists fault. We like our passive pickups, which are just crazy in terms of preserving tone into guitar cables. High impedance pickups interact with capacitance in cables and high impedance volume pots make that interaction variable. Hence the huge market in boutique cables that 'sound different', which makes some folks lots of cash! Treble bleed circuits are a pretty crude attempt to resolve it. Mostly I think we learn to just live with it!
     
  15. homerayvaughan

    homerayvaughan Strat-Talk Member

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    You need to try a few different ones to get the benefit. I use them, and it's not really noticeable in terms of tone. I've had some that actually made it brighter and tinny/cheap sounding. I found a cap and resistor that works great.
     
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  16. ncsink

    ncsink Strat-Talk Member

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    One thing to keep in mind is that a Fuzz Face type pedal won’t clean up like it’s known for with a treble bleed installed on the guitar’s volume. I just recently learned that.
     
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