When did pre CBS Strats start to gain value?

[Kharma Bodies]

I bought my ‘61 in 1974 for $125. I also have a 1970 ES-335 that I bought around 1983 for $400.

Bill, tgo

I wish I was so lucky.

I don’t remember spending more than $300 for the used CBS Fender’s I bought in mid 70s.

PBass for ~$200
Strat, about the same
Tele Deluxe ~ $300

I took them all apart to make templates from them. They remained disassembled in the shop because I was too busy making parts to play. When the shop was robbed I was left with pieces of each, so now they’re partscasters.

I believe the tele deluxe has the Strat neck. And that Strat neck was already modified with Grover gold tuners which were too large for a Strat headstock.

The PBass neck was gone, replaced with a decent maple Japanese neck of 70s vintage.

The electronics/pickups and wiring from the Strat are orphans as a result.

 

[RaySachs]

$1500 in 1979 might have been a lot of money, but it wouldn't have bought you a new car...

No, but it would buy you a damn nice used car at the time...

-Ray

 

[hrstrat57]

My circle of cats in mid to late 70’s considered anything silverface or Pre CBS to be junk. I bought a 74 Strat leftover in 76 that was junk which confirmed the thoughts. We also laughed at Princeton and Champ amps etc as student junk.

We didn’t have the inter webs to save us from our stupidity just a lot of ears ringing from cranked BandMasters and Super Reverbs (only blackface of course)

Otoh around that time I sold a 59 Tele top loader for $800 to some country player and thought I’d taken him to the cleaners.

Idiot.

 

[RussV]

I got my 62 in 1976, prices in London were just starting to go up so mine cost the same as a new Strat. Within a year or two they were much more expensive.

 

[Oldiemurphy]

I bought a '64 Strat in 1974. Players were very aware of the differences between CBS and pre-CBS at that time. But prices were still affordable.

 

[Nokie]

I know prices on pre-CBS were getting beyond my reach by 1977. That was the year Chris Eddy (Duane Eddy's son and a year behind me at our High School) showed me his Dad's '62. The first thing I noticed was the nice light weight, certainly light in comparison to the late '70's Strats around. It was also very playable with it's worn neck. Looking them up in the Recycler (the weekly print "Craigslist" of the day) - they were probably twice the price of a new Strat - or at least approaching that amount.

 

[Nokie]

I really think the AO line will become iconic down the road and the AVRI line (it already is really)

I think the AV's messed up future value for the AVRI's. The latter didn't pay as much attention to detail. The AV's we're more a continuation of the original productions.

 

[Mac62]

View attachment 584773

I abused my Six Million Dollar Man "Bionic activity center" before eventually selling it at a garage sale for a dollar. My sister destroyed her Cabbage Patch doll by playing with it. My dad always swore that he clipped a 1952 Mickey Mantle card to the fork of his bike so that it would hit the spokes to mimic a motorcycle sound.

It's really hard to know which items will be considered collectible in the future. My rule of thumb is, if you know it's a collectible, it's already too late.

As a kid, I had the transport and repair station.

 

[Butcher of Strats]

Around 1974-75 when I started looking for a Fender Strat or bass, they seemed to be around $300 used and in good condition, more for almost brand new CBS and less for all beat up pre CBS.
But I wasnt hearing pre CBS as a guitar buzzterm then, and to me a 65 Strat doesnt suck compared to a 64 Strat (or a 68 Strat doesnt suck compared to a 67) CBS didnt drastically change the guitars the way they drastically changed the amps after Leo left in 67.
Pre CBS amps was another thing.
BF was certainly seen as superior and SF was crap.

So I agree with others saying early 80s was when the used guitars reputation for CBS sucking came later in the 70s after everyone had seen how CBS finally got around to cutting quality on the 75-77 or so guitars. And beater pre CBS guitars that had not been treated like fine antiques were not all superb, many were modded, pickups were dead, microphonic or replaced, terrible "natural" refins or sprayed over finishes were fairly common.
Whatever happened in the early 80s including the Tokai copies being notably better and cheapr than the used 70s Fender guitars, which gives credit to Japan for putting 50s Fender guitars on a pedestal kind of before Americans did.
Fender actually stopped making any guitars in the US for a bit after CBS sold the brand, and we then had Squiers of arguably better quality than the mid to late 70s Fender guitars.

So it was more than collector mentality going for vintage, much was just a new more competitive market with multiple ways to look at what a Strat was and could be.

 

[SoK66]

I was selling what we today call “vintage” in ‘70 -‘72. I was buying used 50s & early 60s Strats in the $150 - $175 range, Selling for $300 - $400 until Clapton’s first solo album came out. Then there was a mad rush to get a 50s maple neck Strat in sunburst. By the time I left the business in ‘72 I could get $500 - $600 for a clean example.

Vintage was ignited by guys like Steven Stills and Clapton who publicly stated the older guitars and amps were better than the new stuff. That got around, by the late 70s everyone was looking for vintage, the dealers were established and the pricing went insane as the Boomers got wealthy and there ya go.

 

[ToneShapers]

We've all heard a million guitar players comment about that old guitar they bought and sold for peanuts, and if they'd only known, yada yada. But here's probably closer to the truth: If they'd had a crystal ball back then and were looking for good investments, they'd have bought Berkshire Hathaway and Apple, not old guitars.

I passed on a matching Dumble head/cab in black suede in 1992 or so, $5000 was outrageous! In 1993 Tom Anderson showed me a Dumble combo and an Anderson Strat, joking that each would pay for one of his kids' college educations, and we laughed about it. The guitar had been built for Mick Jagger, who'd wanted to exchange it for a different color. Tom asked if he could get the Stones to all sign it and they had, including Wyman and Watts. I don't know what that guitar is worth, but no doubt the Dumble would pay for a college education!

 

[Headstock]

Here's a Gruhn pricelist from 76. Makes for sobering reading!

let's do the time warp again! 50yr old Gruhn Guitars catalog

Sherman, set the Wayback Machine to 1976 [ATTACH] [ATTACH] [ATTACH] [ATTACH]

www.talkbass.com

Intrigued by the usual array of Fenders and Gibsons…

but the one that caught my eye was the ‘30s Epiphone Olympic!

Can I have that one please…?!

 

[gitapik]

Vintage was ignited by guys like Steven Stills and Clapton who publicly stated the older guitars and amps were better than the new stuff. That got around, by the late 70s everyone was looking for vintage, the dealers were established and the pricing went insane as the Boomers got wealthy and there ya go.

Yep.
Right (on page one) about the wealthy Japanese hopping on that bandwagon in a big way. Prices skyrocketed.
I couldn’t afford one. Bought a ‘77 which was heavy but sounded and felt good. Nice stable neck w good frets.
CBS Strats had a bad rep for awhile, pining for the old days. I didn’t buy it until I played my friend’s ‘57 (his dad gave it to him). Lighter. Played beautifully. Original pickups were excellent.
So when my local shop had a ‘57 AVRI on consignment, I played it, loved it, and immediately bought it. Put my ‘77 up for sale to cover the cost.
What’s funny is that the guy who I sold it to said, “You sure you want to do this?”. I told him about the ‘57 AVRI. Turns out he had the same guitar and was selling it to buy mine.
And they all lived happily ever after.
THE END
(not)

 

[Delphic]

The CBS-era Strats weren't bad strats, they were variable. Some good, some duds.

By now some of the original faults may have been sorted. And beaten-up, abused (reliced ) guitars are going to be be bad even if they were good in the first place.

BTW Fender made these neck shims especially for CBS era guitars:

 

[harrisonguitars]

At East Carolina University in 1975 I had a chance to buy a 1957 (verified by neck removal) Stratocaster in great condition. He was asking $500 and that was just too much money for a college student at the time.

 

[Whitebeard]

I don't know the answer to your question regarding Strats but I can say that it didn't take CBS long to get a bad reputation regarding quality of their Fender products. That's why pre 1965 Fender products were preferred by many "back in the day". I'm old, I was there.

 

[dbennett1731]

I think there was a time when Pre CBS Stratocasters weren't sought after. They were just used Strats and they could be had for cheap dough. I want to say that was in the 70s and ended in the early 80s. does anyone remember those days and when they started to go up in price?

I got my 1963 stratocaster at guitar center in Santa Ana CA for 700 bucks in 1983. I played 4 of them at different stores and they were all around the same price. Not mint but in good shape.

 

[guyac01]

Maybe it was different in the UK - Old Strats just weren't available second-hand in our Provincial Town's Music Shop - so our first trips to London to view what was available from 1976 onwards showed the 'tatty' or 'old' Pre-CBS Strats at the back of the shops, behind the sales counters, high on the wall out out of reach of prying fingers, but revered for their quality build and sound, and at £650+, three times the price of New Fenders which were around £200-300

 

[grumpypom]

Maybe it was different in the UK - Old Strats just weren't available second-hand in our Provincial Town's Music Shop - so our first trips to London to view what was available from 1976 onwards showed the 'tatty' or 'old' Pre-CBS Strats at the back of the shops, behind the sales counters, high on the wall out out of reach of prying fingers, but revered for their quality build and sound, and at £650+, three times the price of New Fenders which were around £200-300

Pretty much the same in Australia. As a 17 year old in 1977 getting around to jams and starting to gig and meet other players the word was that the old strats were much better, were worth more than the new ones and were hard to find. I remember seeing some old strats and teles on the wall behind the counter at Elliotts a second hand store in Elizabeth St in Sydney. Out of reach!!
In particular I remember “L series” being a revered era of Fender instruments spoken of in hushed tones!…Knowledge was obviously very limited then about the different vintage Fender eras.
L series was what I dreamed of owning back then… and have always wanted!
so that’s what I bought finally when the opportunity arose although by that time I was totally aware that earlier strats were more valuable.
Mine’s one of the very last L plate small headstock strats I’d say… oct 65
Well played but it’s a beautiful thing to me!

 

[ritchiebrown]

I have a hard time seeing guitars built after the early 70s gaining any real collectable value. I think Custom Shop models will largely retain their value and increase with the cost of production relative to what it would cost to order a new one.

For example, present prices on a Les Paul Recording, (70.s) would prove you wrong.