Why doesn’t Fender.

Discussion in 'Sidewinders Bar & Grille' started by Stratafied, Aug 7, 2021.

  1. Stratafied

    Stratafied Most Honored Senior Member

    Age:
    69
    Messages:
    9,661
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2019
    Location:
    North of South
    I don’t know, I’m talking about minor stuff, color and neck choices.
     
    abnormaltoy and Impulsive guppy like this.
  2. Impulsive guppy

    Impulsive guppy Strat-O-Master Silver Member

    Age:
    55
    Messages:
    917
    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2020
    Location:
    Springfield
    I think he was coming at it from the manufacturing side.
    Reduce waste and cost by making it modular.
     
  3. Wound_Up

    Wound_Up CUSTOM USER TITLE Silver Member

    Messages:
    2,999
    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2020
    Location:
    Shreveport, LA
    Yea but he still intended for us to just be able to replace a neck if we needed/wanted to. I mean... It's 4 screws. Not much there to mess up. At least not for me, anyway. But then everybody isn't me, either. Meaning what comes easy to me may not come easy to others. I forget that sometimes. Just because I find something easy or simple doesn't mean everyone will. Some people may be stumped by things that seem simple to me or vice versa.
     
  4. Impulsive guppy

    Impulsive guppy Strat-O-Master Silver Member

    Age:
    55
    Messages:
    917
    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2020
    Location:
    Springfield
    Oh, I think the people here would do fine.
    But the general public, maybe not.
     
    Wound_Up, fattboyzz and abnormaltoy like this.
  5. Impulsive guppy

    Impulsive guppy Strat-O-Master Silver Member

    Age:
    55
    Messages:
    917
    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2020
    Location:
    Springfield
    I should have said this first (fwiw):

    The place I used to work at used a similar manufacturing system to Fender (a system called SAP).
    In this system every part has a part-number, and you create a bill of material from all the numbers.
    You can have subsets of bills inside of bills too. Ideally you would have a drawing for every part.

    So a particular model Strat probably has a top level number, with lots of part numbers (or bills) in it.
    All this is integrated with purchasing, sales, manufacturing, etc.
    Unfortunately this system is awkward for one-off orders.
    Because you would have to create a new bill for each order, and that eats up a lot of data entry time and clogs up the system.

    We struggled with this when customers wanted to order something with their logo on it.
    It’s frustrating because you know it would be simple to just assemble the parts, ship it and have a happy customer. But the system makes it difficult and costly.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2021
    slowesthand likes this.
  6. Danny D

    Danny D Strat-O-Master

    Age:
    61
    Messages:
    691
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2019
    Location:
    New Orleans born, now 40 miles west of Sacramento
    I didn't realize the Pro II's were that affordable. I definitely need to keep up with the times.
     
    Stratafied likes this.
  7. Jason D

    Jason D Senior Stratmaster

    Age:
    46
    Messages:
    2,709
    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2016
    Location:
    Fulton MO
    I agree with this assessment. I was looking at mustangs a few months ago, and I couldn’t believe a Vintera was offered in only like 3 colors and not even very good colors. I do think having the ability to sort of “special order” a certain spec (within the basic specs of the range) would increase the price a small bit, but it would be nice to have at least a handful more options. Certain ranges just have so few choices that it entices me NOT to buy.
     
    Stratafied likes this.
  8. CB91710

    CB91710 No GAS shortage here Double Platinum Supporting Member

    Messages:
    8,520
    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2019
    Location:
    SoCal
    Fender, Gibson, Gretch, Guild, Rickenbacker, Carvin, Charvel (Jackson didn't start until the 80s)... Today, several of these have been gobbled up by Fender.
    So ya, there were more than Fender and Gibson selling US-made solid body electrics. As today, they were the largest, but the market has always been dominated by them. The difference was, while we had a gazillion custom builders, we didn't have custom builders with national recognition like Suhr and Andersen.

    Only a few models? They had more than they have today:
    1976 catalog....
    10 guitar models - Starcaster (semi-hollow), Jazzmaster, Telecster Deluxe, Telecaster Thinline, Stratocaster, Telecaster Custom, Telecaster, Mustang, Bronco, Musicmaster
    6 different Steel guitar models including two double and one triple-neck options
    5 bass models - Jazz Bass, P-Bass, Telecaster Bass, Mustang Bass, Musicmaster Bass.
    11 flat-top acoustics
    5 Classical
    3 Banjos
    16 guitar amps
    6 bass amps
    2 PA systems

    http://www.vintaxe.com/catalogs_pages/catalogs_american_fender_1976.php

    There were a TON of imported guitars from Japan and Korea, and they were quite playable... not the department-store $40 cheapies, but particularly the Japanese models are still highly sought after, and bring high prices. The "lawsuit" era began in the late 70s with Ibanez, Aria, Fernandez, and others making guitars that were every bit as good as Fender and Gibson at half the price.

    My first guitar was a Korean Les Paul copy that I got (new) at a pawn shop for $100 with HSC.
    Plywood body, but it was the same dimensions as a real Les Paul... not some slab body that was only an inch thick, and it had a shaped top (heat-formed plywood).
    That $100 in '76 would be around $400 today, and yes, today you can get a much nicer guitar for $400 than you could back then for $100

    You're priced out of the market because you choose to be a cheapskate ;)
    I was making $2.90/hr when I bought my '78 Antigua and Peavey Deuce.
    That was over 400 hours... probably pushing 500 with taxes.... 6 months flipping burgers for 20 hours a week.
     
  9. Dibbs

    Dibbs Senior Stratmaster

    Age:
    58
    Messages:
    1,213
    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2020
    Location:
    North Central Florida
    I'm going to be the Devil's Advocate here, for a moment. Recently, I got that "Perfect Fender",
    the MIA, SSS, Ash Body, yadda yadda. Now that I have the "perfect Fender' I'm just noticing deficiencies, which, to my perception, were hard to see, until I had the guitar in hand, and had used it for a while. I guess what I'm trying to say is this ultimate guitar may not be the final solution to GAS, which you may want it to be. Just sayin'. YMMV, tho, so good luck.
     
    gazzie, Stratafied and fattboyzz like this.
  10. mplsrube

    mplsrube Strat-Talk Member

    Age:
    57
    Messages:
    89
    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2021
    Location:
    Minneapolis
    I did the Mod Shop thing. I wanted a hard tail, noiseless singles and locking tuners. You just cannot find that at the local shop. The one thing I could not get from the Mod Shop was an ash body; alder or mahogany only.
     
  11. Stratafied

    Stratafied Most Honored Senior Member

    Age:
    69
    Messages:
    9,661
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2019
    Location:
    North of South
    Exactly, and if I want it , I’d be willing to pay a little more.
     
    Jason D likes this.
  12. Stratafied

    Stratafied Most Honored Senior Member

    Age:
    69
    Messages:
    9,661
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2019
    Location:
    North of South
    Under $2000. And with a case, a basic mod shop is $2000 and that might not include a case.
     
  13. StratUp

    StratUp Senior Stratmaster

    Messages:
    3,126
    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2020
    Location:
    Altered States
    Seems like a major mod shop price increase for a minor amount of labor on Fender's part. But, that's their call. It's their shop.

    General Motors used to offer the ability to order any of their cars with any options or colors or interiors you wanted. Neither GM or the dealers were very fond of it. Dealers didn't want to hassle with the delay – they wanted to sell you something on the lot that would turn the dollars today and end the loan on one of their in stock vehicles.

    There wasn't much of an up charge as I recall. I was surprised in that I couldn't figure how they build a one off car without a significant amount of labor involved. Makes a mod shop guitar look like a gimme.
     
  14. rockon1

    rockon1 Senior Stratmaster Silver Member

    Messages:
    1,930
    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2019
    Location:
    CT
    My mod shop....no rails unfortunately. :(


    Screenshot 2021-08-08 at 11-47-23 Stratocaster Mod Shop.png
     
  15. Scott Baxendale

    Scott Baxendale Senior Stratmaster Gold Supporting Member

    Age:
    65
    Messages:
    3,024
    Joined:
    May 20, 2020
    Location:
    Athens Ga
    It won’t be much longer before Fender will “print” guitars on demand. They will eliminate the guitar store and go strictly online with a model similar how ordering converse Allstars is now. You will pick your body, neck, pickups, etc and it will be built by a robot as soon as you enter the data. I don’t like this model but that’s where it’s going. GC will be history at that juncture.
     
    Stratafied likes this.
  16. Stratoskater

    Stratoskater Fuzz Meister General

    Age:
    46
    Messages:
    9,840
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2011
    Location:
    Running with Scissors
    Leo meant for necks to be swapped easily but he was all about efficiency and would not have been cool with changes in the standard production line without up charge, just like Custom colors were in his day. Leo was not about having tons of choices as that makes a line less efficient.
     
  17. slowesthand

    slowesthand Senior Stratmaster

    Messages:
    2,266
    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2011
    Location:
    NY
    Here in lies the problem.
    You want to pay a "little" more, Fender wants you to pay "a lot" more.

    The consumers goal is to get the most possible product for the least amount of money.
    The producers goal is to charge the most money for the least product.
     
  18. Stratafied

    Stratafied Most Honored Senior Member

    Age:
    69
    Messages:
    9,661
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2019
    Location:
    North of South
    You’re probably right, I was hoping my idea would add jobs for humans.
     
    Scott Baxendale likes this.
  19. StratoMutt

    StratoMutt Most Honored Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,739
    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2019
    Location:
    SE Pennsylvania
    Did not know of this.

    Very limited choices imwo.
     
    Stratafied likes this.
  20. Scott Baxendale

    Scott Baxendale Senior Stratmaster Gold Supporting Member

    Age:
    65
    Messages:
    3,024
    Joined:
    May 20, 2020
    Location:
    Athens Ga
    The robots are already here. The new jobs for humans will be for guys who fix the robots.
     
    CB91710 and Stratafied like this.