Yet another eBay fake

Discussion in 'Stratocaster Discussion Forum' started by jpmist, Aug 14, 2013.

  1. jpmist

    jpmist Strat-O-Master Gold Supporting Member

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    Dunno why the 79 year is so popular, maybe I notice cause I have an actual real one, but I've noticed they pop up frequently in suspiciously pristine condidion.

    Fender Stratocaster Sienna Burst 1981 Vintage Very Very Nice | eBay

    The plastic pickup bobbins give this one away if the shiny pots and pickguard foil didn't.

    A little googling found this Chinese site:

    I noticed some halarious gaffes, such as a Telecaster label on a strat. But I also noticed that the necks usually have grain marks that Fender necks don't have. The serial number fonts are too bold and have the wrong fonts and the stamping on the "Noiseless" and "Duncan" is too thick and sloppy.

    Sad that a whole lot of people are getting ripped off on eBay and eBay has never pulled a fake listing I've reported.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 14, 2013
  2. nickmsmith

    nickmsmith Dr. Stratster

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    The year 79 is popular, because those 1979 strats were sold for at least 2-3 years, until Fender moved production to Japan

    This looks real to me, besides the electronics. The headstock looks right, bullet truss rod. 3 bolt neck, the tuners look OK (but can't really tell because no back of headstock pic) the neck adjustment thing on the back of the neck heel as well. The bridge also looks right.

    If that's a fake, that is the best fake I have ever seen.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2013
  3. Yogi

    Yogi Most Honored Senior Member

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    The one on ebay is real, with possibly changed electronics/pickgaurd. 3bolt neck, microtilt, cast 1pc block, correct tuners, bullet TR. Fakes usually don't get those details correct
     
  4. jpmist

    jpmist Strat-O-Master Gold Supporting Member

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    Looking further, the body carve is wrong, mine has a much thicker edge, his is pretty thin. The heel carve of the neck is wrong as well, mine has more of a "v" taper while his is more of a "u"

    If he wrong about the pickups, which aren't grey bottoms, and the body is not a 70's era than it's just a partscaster that's going to get bid up more than it's really worth.

    [​IMG]
     
  5. nickmsmith

    nickmsmith Dr. Stratster

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    I've heard the 70s strats were pretty inconsistent. But it is possible to be a fake body.. but if it's a fake body, it wasn't a cheap one, as 3 bolt neck mount holes are far from standard. and from the info provided, at least the neck is the one part that is confirmably real.

    The body has that fender sticker with the microtilt plate on it.. Seems like a lot of trouble to go through for a fake body.. but I'm sure someone here has the knowledge to tell if that sticker is right or not.

    I don't know if contours alone is enough to go off of to see if real or not. up until the CNC machine days, strats were wildly inconsistent. You'd get some strats in the 50s and 60s with V necks, some with fat C necks.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2013
  6. PJay

    PJay Strat-Talk Member

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    From what I can see, this Strat looks to be pretty much what the seller is claiming it is. As others have said, the neck looks good. And, as nickmssmith points out, if the body is a fake, it's a really good one in an accurate '81 color.

    The pickups look right to me,too. Compare to these: Vintage Fender 1981 Strat Stratocaster | eBay

    All in all, I say the Strat on eBay is legit.
     
  7. crawdaddy

    crawdaddy Most Honored Senior Member

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    Comparing the P/U's....seems that the ones in the original attachment are flat poled while the ones in your attachment are staggered....otherwise they do look identical...maybe my eyes are off too...late night last night
     
  8. softwarejanitor

    softwarejanitor Most Honored Senior Member

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    Nicksmith is right... late 1970s quality control was practically non-existant at Fender. Things like body contour were very inconsistent. From what I've heard it was pretty common for the Ash bodies to have much shallower contours than ones made from Alder in those years just because as Nick says, the body contours were shaped largely by hand guided machines instead of CNC back then and workers were under production targets that limited how much time they could take. The Ash that Fender was using in the late 1970s was often harder than hell and it took a long time to mill, so workers cut corners. Occasionally though they'd get a piece that wasn't so hard or perhaps they were ahead of their targets so one would be done more "right".

    The stickers and that on the body all look kosher. What does not look right is the pearloid pickguard -- although by 1981 Fender was back to using some non-black plastics again, that pearloid has got to be a more recent replacement. I also agree with those who say that the pickups are likely not original as well. The pots and cap at least look to be the right type you commonly see on these, but that is no guarantee that they are original. I would suspect in addition to the pickguard and pickups being replacements that the knobs probably are as well (the ones from that era generally don't yellow quite that evenly -- look like those came new in cream color) and possibly switch tip, although it is more the color that would have been correct if it were a white one from that era. Its almost too clean looking though. Anyway, it looks like someone has tried to fake the typical penciled on date codes on the pickups but the date looks like 103881 and I don't think October has 38 days. I've seen some pictures of black bobbins on the bridge pickup on very late CBS era Strats, but usually the pickup covers would not be that yellowed given the little aging to the rest of it so at least those are suspect. Plus they are so uniformly colored, where truly old ones usually aren't.

    Anyway... if it goes in the $600-$700 range it might be worth it to someone who really loves late CBS Strats... it will cost a couple hundred additional to replace the aftermarket parts on it with period correct original parts, plus the auction says the case that is included is not the original Fender case. Much above that range and you are into where you can buy one that is all proper and original to begin with.
     
  9. PJay

    PJay Strat-Talk Member

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    The seller indicates in the description that the plastics have been changed, and he's including the originals.

    Nor does it have 54 days, but I think this pickup is legit, too: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Fen...329?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item53eb8b4c29 I think the numbering format on these must be something other than MMDDYY.

    It looks like the pickup covers were swapped for a set that are not as deep as the originals (again, the seller says they've been changed), and they're not fitting correctly and are raised up a bit. Note the gap you can kind of see between the cover and pickup in one of the back-of-pickguard pictures. I think that's why the pole pieces look flat instead of staggered.
     
  10. STRAT'71

    STRAT'71 Senior Stratmaster

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    Whatever its authenticity, it sure looks nice.
     
  11. Paul47

    Paul47 Strat-Talker

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    Seller has listed all the changes in his description. Everything else looks fine to me.
     
  12. Teddy Watkins

    Teddy Watkins Senior Stratmaster

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    So someone perfectly faked a microtilt 3-bolt neck and body, the period correct little serial number sticker on the body, which matches the serial number on the correct script fender decal, period correct bridge, as best I can tell period correct pickups and electronics(think I see an 81 on the last tone knob pot code, if I'm reading it right), took lots of good photos of it which they posted, and did a no reserve auction with 100% feedback.

    If you are going to talk like you know what you are talking about, know what you are talking about. Or just say you THINK something is fake. I've learned a lot from threads started by people who knew something was fake when it wasn't. Pickguards, knobs, and pickup covers are often and easily changed.

    And the pickup poles on these should be flat, I believe. They had switched away from vintage stagger by then. I just looked at several strats from that time frame with black plastic bobbins. And it looks like it has the X-1 Bridge pickup. I'm no expert, but nothing on that guitar that matters looks fake to me.
     
  13. mcmacguy

    mcmacguy Senior Stratmaster

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    I think you rushed to judgement a little too fast there, jpmist. You should ask here first. The pickguard, knobs and pup covers are not original, but the pickups sure look it, right down to the X1 with the yellow lead at the bridge. I've got an 82 with identical guts. And a matching neck serial and body serial number sticker are pretty damn good proof too! Highly unlikely they would be faked.

    Methinks you owe that seller an apology.
     
  14. nickmsmith

    nickmsmith Dr. Stratster

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    Thinking about it.. this is the absolute best way to advertise a real, old strat! Members will prove your guitar's authenticity for you!! GENIUS! :)
     
  15. STRAT'71

    STRAT'71 Senior Stratmaster

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    I expect the bidding to accelerate now.
    Wouldn't mind it myself at the latest price, but we British are barred.
     
  16. PJay

    PJay Strat-Talk Member

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    Maybe we should let each other know when we're interested in a Strat on eBay. We can start a thread, and talk the price down :)

    Just kidding, of course.
     
  17. John C

    John C Most Honored Senior Member Silver Member

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    I have to agree with everyone else - the changes make it look somewhat faked (particularly those ill-fitting pickup covers) but it looks legit. Regarding the body contours - by the end of 1981 Fender was doing deeper contours on the ash bodies again. Since this one is from December 1981 then it was only a couple of months (maybe just weeks) ahead of the 1982 "Smith Strats" which did have deeper contours. Likely Smith had already instituted that change to Strat production before the revised versions came out for 1982.
     
  18. Yogi

    Yogi Most Honored Senior Member

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    Also those body contours are just general guidelines. I've seen 70s era strats with a large variance in contours. My 72 has 60's body contours. Not all of them have the fat bodies.
     
  19. softwarejanitor

    softwarejanitor Most Honored Senior Member

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    It isn't as much talking the price down as it is keeping some poor schmuck from falling for the sales hype that a late 1970s or pre-"Smith" early 1980s Strat is worth more than $800-$1200 in today's soft non-vintage semi-collectible guitar market. we've seen too many suckers come around here after shelling out stupid prices that would have been high even in 2007 before the market crashed.
     
  20. softwarejanitor

    softwarejanitor Most Honored Senior Member

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    On the other hand I've seen a few Natural Ash bodies that are even shallower than the one in that guideline pic. Like I'm talking the non-contoured part of the back contour is more than the contoured part. Whoever did that one must have really been in a hurry or something.

    FWIW, my 1977 is pretty similar to what the guideline says it should be... and it is on the heavy side, albeit far from the worst I've ever seen.